Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Evil Ryu isn't completely non canon, he has shown up once, so it is hard to gauge him. But many characters on here have limited or non canon showings.At least he doesn't rely on numerous plot devices. 😛
Not like Evil Ryu, whose best feat...nay, only feat, is a cheapshot.
Stop lying to yourself. You know Ryu lives on plot devices. That's the only way he beats people like Sagat & Bison.
Ryu doesn't live on plot devices. He beat Bison with help. I was being facetious though if it wasn't clear (to some extent). He has plenty of showings with his own merit. Sagat definitely isn't out of his league. Bison isn't around in SF3, so it is possible he surpassed him at that point, because he surpassed his older self (when evil), he's probably past Alpha Akuma in around the time of SF3, but that's just a rough guess.
But Kratos uses plot devices to win his serious matches, lots of help and plot devices. Which is fine since it a story first and foremost. But his items he uses are hard to gauge. Kratos arguments are a pain in some places because of the "He kills Gods!!!" argument.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Ryu doesn't live on plot devices. He beat Bison with help. I was being facetious though if it wasn't clear (to some extent). He has plenty of showings with his own merit. Sagat definitely isn't out of his league. Bison isn't around in SF3, so it is possible he surpassed him at that point, because he surpassed his older self (when evil), he's probably past Alpha Akuma in around the time of SF3, but that's just a rough guess.But Kratos uses plot devices to win his serious matches, lots of help and plot devices. Which is fine since it a story first and foremost. But his items he uses are hard to gauge. Kratos arguments are a pain in some places because of the "He kills Gods!!!" argument.
I was being facetious as well dude. 😐
How strong he is in SF3 has no merit over his showings against them when he fought them. Sagat was beaten via a cheap shot and it was later retconned into a plot device power, but it still remained a cheap shot. Then there's Bison, who got smacked away by Ryu and retreated. Granted, Ryu needed help to overcome Bison's brainwashing, but he still pwned Bison by himself iirc. I don't remember how Ryu beat a Seth, but I believe it was with a Metsu Hadouken.
Ryu has his fair share of good showings, but he needed plot devices against people like Sagat and Bison. It's not obvious, but he, like any protagonist, has PIS on his side.
Against dudes like Ares and Zeus, yeah, he needed a plot device. Then there's his fight against Poseidon & Thanatos, where Kratos needed Gaia's & Deimos' aid respectively. Other than that, I don't think there is another fight where Kratos needed outside aid or a plot device.
Yeah, using 'he kills gods' as the basis of an argument is a pain. Kratos killed a goddess by snapping her neck. She has no feats, other than the fact that her death caused all flora to rot and die.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixCouldn't tell. Online and all.
I was being facetious as well dude. 😐How strong he is in SF3 has no merit over his showings against them when he fought them. Sagat was beaten via a cheap shot and it was later retconned into a plot device power, but it still remained a cheap shot. Then there's Bison, who got smacked away by Ryu and retreated. Granted, Ryu needed help to overcome Bison's brainwashing, but he still pwned Bison by himself iirc. I don't remember how Ryu beat a Seth, but I believe it was with a Metsu Hadouken.
Ryu has his fair share of good showings, but he needed plot devices against people like Sagat and Bison. It's not obvious, but he, like any protagonist, has PIS on his side.Against dudes like Ares and Zeus, yeah, he needed a plot device. Then there's his fight against Poseidon & Thanatos, where Kratos needed Gaia's & Deimos' aid respectively. Other than that, I don't think there is another fight where Kratos needed outside aid or a plot device.
Yeah, using 'he kills gods' as the basis of an argument is a pain. Kratos killed a goddess by snapping her neck. She has no feats, other than the fact that her death caused all flora to rot and die.
All characters have a plot, but when a character uses a plot device through unqantifiable means it becomes a pain to debate. He did hit Sagat when he was overwhelmed by Satsui no hado, Sagat was never out of his league. Bison is out of his league though (at the time, can't say now). Since generally people consider Evil Ryu as an amp, I'm wondering if he meant that.
Obviously someone using a friend to beat Bison is a clear cut case of help, he didn't use the "OMG Dragon necklace", which would be a bit different in regards to what I was talking about.
Yea, it's hard to argue that way against Kratos, reminds me of MK.
On a serious note though I'd say it looks like Kratos is a tier higher than classic Ryu. Shame they have so few feats to gauge. On Ryu's highest showings he'd have a better chance, don't see it here though.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Kratos? Yea I agree.
No. When you have a character whose entire existence is based upon a single plot point that's taken to entire hypothetical levels in the games, then you know all you have is a plot device given form and substance. Case in point, the entire concept of the Satsui no Hadou.