SBP vs ASGARDIAN DESTROYER

Originally posted by Sirius77
It didn't transport him throughout time... it transported him outside of the multiverse. That was the Monarch blast that teleported him through time. Completely different arcs.

So Prime just decided to time travel? It had nothing to do with Monarch's quantum universe destroying blast. Right. Prime was practically in the epicenter of the blast and you're saying that he just time traveled away? 😬

The blast transported him away just as it transported Atom away. Prime was lost in time though and Trapper found him.

That's probably his most impressive durability feat. IIRC it easily destroyed the Green Lantern's he was fighting. I unfortunately don't have the comic on hand to see how powerful it is under Johns. I believe he was going to consume the Earth with it so perhaps planetary destruction.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Suicide blast? You act as if Monarch planned to get his chest armor ripped open...

Again though he wasn't close enough to Monarch to be teleported. In fact in all of the comics with CA in them that I have come across I have never seen him jump as a result of injury and take someone with him.

Atom sometimes Quantum Jumps through time when he absorbs large amounts of energies. I've also seen him quantum jump by discharging a great deal of energy. IIRC, that even happened recently in Generation Lost after he drained a bomb.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Sorry that took so long, I re-read everything.

That's fine. Going off memory unfortunately.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Well it's mentioned several times before this, but the ones prior to this example were ambiguous, but in Final Crisis #1 pg 27, one of the Moniters, when referring to the Orrery (the multiverse) states that "New Earth is secure. The Bleed Drains are intact. The multiversal orrery has survived repair after loss of moving part: Universe 51." Imo thats the clearest example, but there are other references. The plant part was pretty ridiculous though lol. I think that they were going for a reference to hope or something but it didn't really flow with the story imo lol.v

That's the least ambiguous statement you could find? Lol. That's the problem with metaphysical stuff. No straight answer. Loss of it's moving part can be twisted, interpreted etc. in various ways.

Originally posted by Sirius77
As far as Monarch and Prime teleporting away, there was no indication that it happened like that. If it did, they would have been in relatively the same place. Also, they weren't touching. In the page, Superboy-prime jumped off of Monarchs chest with two pieces of armor in his hand, and if I had to speculate, the blast probably blew him even farther away. Either way, if CA had carried him in his port, they would have both been in the same area.

Then how else did it happen? Captain Atom ended up in modern day, and Prime ended up lost in time. No they weren't

No, but they were in close proximity. No necessarily. Prime could have simply been caught in the quantum jump only to have been left behind. Seems to be the most logical explanation to me.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Nah, that's not my argument, I was just saying that he wimps out a lot and then tanks attacks that don't correspond to the level of pain he seems to be expressing. He didn't seem to be damaged by the attack though. As I said before though, it could have just been a low showing, every character has some.

I could see how you would believe that, but like I said, regardless of what he said, his cape was barely even tattered and he had no signs of injury. Also, just because the blast looked similar to a nuclear explosion, does not necessarily indicate that its intensity was the same. I'm guessing it was probably stronger considering the fact that Monarch's power is quantum as opposed to classically "comic book atomic". Even Odin doesn't have to bust a galaxy with every attack for it to be intense.

Examples? Less due to importance but more out of curiosity. I can't think of any. The closest that comes to mind is against Black Adam and he was clearly just f*cking around.

Dude, his costume not being damaged means zero. Do I really have to point out the various instances where a character has been hurt, knocked out etc. with their outfit being undamaged? I thought it was clear he was meant to be hurt.

Possibly, but that seems like speculation.

True, attacks don't have to have a lot of collateral damage for them to be powerful -concentrated in a narrower beam etc.- however as far as I can tell, Monarch once he opened his suit didn't have control over his power.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's probably his most impressive durability feat. IIRC it easily destroyed the Green Lantern's he was fighting. I unfortunately don't have the comic on hand to see how powerful it is under Johns. I believe he was going to consume the Earth with it so perhaps planetary destruction.

Atom sometimes Quantum Jumps through time when he absorbs large amounts of energies. I've also seen him quantum jump by discharging a great deal of energy. IIRC, that even happened recently in Generation Lost after he drained a bomb.

That's fine. Going off memory unfortunately.

That's the least ambiguous statement you could find? Lol. That's the problem with metaphysical stuff. No straight answer. Loss of it's moving part can be twisted, interpreted etc. in various ways.

Then how else did it happen? Captain Atom ended up in modern day, and Prime ended up lost in time. No they weren't

No, but they were in close proximity. No necessarily. Prime could have simply been caught in the quantum jump only to have been left behind. Seems to be the most logical explanation to me.

Examples? Less due to importance but more out of curiosity. I can't think of any. The closest that comes to mind is against Black Adam and he was clearly just f*cking around.

Dude, his costume not being damaged means zero. Do I really have to point out the various instances where a character has been hurt, knocked out etc. with their outfit being undamaged? I thought it was clear he was meant to be hurt.

True, attacks don't have to have a lot of collateral damage for them to be powerful -concentrated in a narrower beam etc.- however as far as I can tell, Monarch once he opened his suit didn't have control over his power.

I agree with you are saying, SBP was caught up in the quatum jump. Regardless he is PC character he couldn't have tank a blast that destroyed a whole universe. In a make sense you see him drifting in the time stream. Hell you got my vote. 👆

Originally posted by quanchi112
To another universe when it wasn't supposed to.

The blast transported him away just as it transported Atom away. Prime was lost in time though and Trapper found him.

Quan... come on, you're really trying my patience here man. You're wrong again. Will you please read the comic and stop guessing? He was warped into the multiverse. Not another universe, or some random place in time. Again, different arcs.

Guardian in GL vol 4 # 25 "Prime's body was removed from the universe atom by atom. If he survived... he was warped into the multiverse."

Okay. Quan. In the history of all of CA's appearances, when has he ever jumped as a result of overload and taken someone a distance away from him with him, much less displaced the other person not just in another location than himself, but floating towards the end of time? Can I have a scan of this? I give you scans all the time quan. I'm asking for one.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Quan... come on, you're really trying my patience here man. You're wrong again. Will you please read the comic and stop guessing? He was warped into the multiverse. Not another universe, or some random place in time. Again, different arcs.

Guardian in GL vol 4 # 25 "Prime's body was removed from the universe atom by atom. If he survived... he was warped into the multiverse."

Okay. Quan. In the history of all of CA's appearances, when has he ever jumped as a result of overload and taken someone a distance away from him with him, much less displaced the other person not just in another location than himself, but floating towards the end of time? Can I have a scan of this? I give you scans all the time quan. I'm asking for one.

In this instance he jumped as did Prime. I don't need to cite other instances in this one it's clear both he and Prime were sent through time.

The only one who tanked the blast was the Monitor. he tanked it easily too.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Atom sometimes Quantum Jumps through time when he absorbs large amounts of energies. I've also seen him quantum jump by discharging a great deal of energy. IIRC, that even happened recently in Generation Lost after he drained a bomb.

I know, and this is not what I'm disputing. I'm arguing that I see no evidence that Prime was caught in the jump.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's the least ambiguous statement you could find? Lol. That's the problem with metaphysical stuff. No straight answer. Loss of it's moving part can be twisted, interpreted etc. in various ways.

The orrery is essentially another word for multiverse for the moniters. By moving parts, they are referring to universes. In fact, the word universe was explicitly used when referring to the "moving part" that was lost, i.e. Universe 51.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Then how else did it happen? Captain Atom ended up in modern day, and Prime ended up lost in time. No they weren't

No, but they were in close proximity. No necessarily. Prime could have simply been caught in the quantum jump only to have been left behind. Seems to be the most logical explanation to me.

As far as how it happened, where do you get blasted to if the universe you're in is destroyed? My guess would be somewhere where time and space are irrelevant or "lost in time".

Also I don't see how Prime could have been left behind considering the fact that CA's jumps are virtually instantaneous. At which point would he have time to be left behind? Also, when has CA ever carried someone with him during a jump of that sort in that kind of proximity? I don't recall there being a case of such.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Examples? Less due to importance but more out of curiosity. I can't think of any. The closest that comes to mind is against Black Adam and he was clearly just f*cking around.

Well off memory, the fact that in SC the antimatter touch of the AM that was burning Guardians almost to the point of death, Prime flew through that same antimatter with literally no effect.

He takes on the entire JLA including characters that are no longer a part of it, the JSA, and a couple other teams, all at the same time while weakened, at night, after being exposed to red sun radiation.

Same thing in LO3W except with more red sun radiation and he was less weakened beforehand.

Survives and absorbs a kamikaze attack from a guardian with the others helping.

Resisting a Black Lantern ring (in other words literal death), calling forth all of the lights of the emotional spectrum, creating white light and destroying the black ring. No one has ever done that with a black ring. All of this without meaning to.

Tbh, I think that his innate durability is astounding and will prove to survive whatever is thrown at him just like the time trapper said.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Dude, his costume not being damaged means zero. Do I really have to point out the various instances where a character has been hurt, knocked out etc. with their outfit being undamaged? I thought it was clear he was meant to be hurt.

What about that entire scene was indicative of him being hurt other than his whining? He just hopped out of nowhere and started fighting monarch. What was injured on him that would give you this impression?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
True, attacks don't have to have a lot of collateral damage for them to be powerful -concentrated in a narrower beam etc.- however as far as I can tell, Monarch once he opened his suit didn't have control over his power.

He probably didn't have a lot of control over the energy that leaked from his suit. However, if the power that came from his chest being exposed was sufficient to destroy Universe 51, then the blast of energy that Prime got to his face prior to the final attack can probably be judged as quite powerful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said they were the same arcs. He wasn't supposed to travel to another universe but he did so anyways due to him surviving it. He wasn't supposed to survive so thanks for backing me up.

You're right, you were just throwing out random words hoping that they might be right, because after all of this time you still have yet to read the comic.
Regardless of whether or not the guardians meant for him to survive or not, I don't see how it is relevant, considering he surpassed their expectations by leaps and bounds. What was your argument again?

Originally posted by quanchi112
In this instance he jumped as did Prime. I don't need to cite other instances in this one it's clear both he and Prime were sent through time.

The only one who tanked the blast was the Monitor. he tanked it easily too.

Other instances? The one instance that you have claimed to be all that is needed is still under debate. What other instances would there be? I was being facetious when I asked for the scan. I knew you wouldn't provide it. You never do.
So you have no way to back up this claim, but you "just know". quan you crack me up.

Originally posted by Sirius77
You're right, you were just throwing out random words hoping that they might be right, because after all of this time you still have yet to read the comic.
Regardless of whether or not the guardians meant for him to survive or not, I don't see how it is relevant, considering he surpassed their expectations by leaps and bounds. What was your argument again?

Other instances? The one instance that you have claimed to be all that is needed is still under debate. What other instances would there be? I was being facetious when I asked for the scan. I knew you wouldn't provide it. You never do.
So you have no way to back up this claim, but you "just know". quan you crack me up.

Was Atom or was he not transported away in countdown went his armor was breached ? So why is it illogical to assume Prime wasn't when the Monitor couldn't locate him ? where did he go., huh ?

Sorry to burst your bubble the feat is only for the Monitor who stayed he tanked the chain reaction blast. That's it. 🙂

I don't see destroyer being fast enough to even hit prime.

Originally posted by MrMind
I don't see destroyer being fast enough to even hit prime.

Originally posted by quanchi112
<y argument was how he can be transported to other universes or times by powers other than his own. I read it all and unlike you grasped it.

That was not my argument in the slightest. In fact there wasn't one. I was correcting you when you first said that Prime was bfred by the guardian to another time. I corrected you. Then you said another universe. I corrected you. Now you are assuming that my corrections are a part of my overall argument? Please try to differentiate between arguments and helpful statements quan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Was Atom or was he not transported away in countdown went his armor was breached ? So why is it illogical to assume Prime wasn't when the Monitor couldn't locate him ? where did he go., huh ?

He was. That much was never disputed. What is being disputed is if he ever, in his entire history jumped with another passenger that was not touching him and dropped them at the end of time. Again, if you believe this, then post proof. It is illogical, because it has never happened and we have nothing other than baseless speculation to assume otherwise. Is that clear enough?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sorry to burst your bubble the feat is only for the Monitor who stayed he tanked the chain reaction blast. That's it. 🙂

I as well as many others have had this dilemma with you countless times quan. You make all of these claims and refuse to provide valid proof or even an argument. You just say the same thing in different ways and never post any scans regarding your most serious claims. You can believe what you want and do what you want, but I dont have time for you.

Talk to me when you can back up what you say.

there are times when ignore can be your bestest friend..... 🙂

Well, I thought my post in the other Prime thread, before I closed it, made a dent...facepalm

Low balling is not debating. Telling people what is and isn't "in character" to take away from powers is not debating.

This has been part of the rules since I've been here:

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.

Originally posted by Sirius77
That was not my argument in the slightest. In fact there wasn't one. I was correcting you when you first said that Prime was bfred by the guardian to another time. I corrected you. Then you said another universe. I corrected you. Now you are assuming that my corrections are a part of my overall argument? Please try to differentiate between arguments and helpful statements quan.

He was. That much was never disputed. What is being disputed is if he ever, in his entire history jumped with another passenger that was not touching him and dropped them at the end of time. Again, if you believe this, then post proof. It is illogical, because it has never happened and we have nothing other than baseless speculation to assume otherwise. Is that clear enough?

I as well as many others have had this dilemma with you countless times quan. You make all of these claims and refuse to provide valid proof or even an argument. You just say the same thing in different ways and never post any scans regarding your most serious claims. You can believe what you want and do what you want, but I dont have time for you.

Talk to me when you can back up what you say.

That's the only logical assessment as to what happened with prime since

a)we know he was lost in time
b)the Monitor didn't detect him in his own universe.

Logic ftw.

Look up at a and b just above and you will realize my case is crystal clear. there's no way for Prime to get lost in time on his own. None. He was transported and lost whereas Atom wasn't. You can ignore this but I won't since I tend to understand these characters and the situation of the comic itself.

Originally posted by Badabing
Well, I thought my post in the other Prime thread, before I closed it, made a dent...facepalm

Low balling is not debating. Telling people what is and isn't "in character" to take away from powers is not debating.

This has been part of the rules since I've been here:

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. [b]For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed. [/B]

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's probably his most impressive durability feat. IIRC it easily destroyed the Green Lantern's he was fighting. I unfortunately don't have the comic on hand to see how powerful it is under Johns. I believe he was going to consume the Earth with it so perhaps planetary destruction.

My point is, that if he can tank the anti matter wave from Anti monitor, what exactly is there to suggest that the disintegration beam from the destroyer will have a significant impact on him? As far as I can tell they basically, though having different names, archives the same purpose, erasing of the target or at the very least great pain.

I'm confused here.... So the destroyer is getting the win against Prime by most... yet when Thanos is in the destroyer (which woudl be more powerful than a normal destroyer inhabitant) Odin still stomps... WTF...

Magic. SBP destroys the destroyer.

The reaching here is hilarious.

Originally posted by Philosophía
The reaching here is hilarious.

your thoughts my good philo?