Originally posted by 753
nah...DS's recent performances against SM have watered him down to a high herald/very low trans. If SM can beat him, it's entirely plausible for SS to do so.I gave DS the win considering that his embarassing defeats at the hands of SM are mostly jobbing.
I'm not sure I would go that far, Supes in physically as strong as most trans levelers, DS can do much better against someone with a different powerset, I'd go as far as to say he's physically superior to most heralds.
Originally posted by Bentley
I'm not sure I would go that far, Supes in physically as strong as most trans levelers, DS can do much better against someone with a different powerset, I'd go as far as to say he's physically superior to most heralds.
Doomsday utterly crushed DS, tho. Physically, he just wasn't quite there. And his fight with Orion wasn't all that decisive in putting him in the "physically beyond HH" category, either. "Beyond HH" should show him utterly schooling/slapping around HHs the way Thanos/DP Tyrant or SBP does it.
I know that DS mostly has better feats than that, but the way Supes has been tooling him (tho he's had his moments as well) kinda lowers his overall value in terms of formidability.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Doomsday in that particular story was superior to Silver Surfer in that he could adapt to any given power including the Omegas. He was also able to resist high level time and matter manipulation in the form of waverider as well as resist being physically stronger than an amped Superman. Silver Surfer would have done worse against Doomsday than Darksied did considering DS's omegas are stronger than anything Surfer could crank out. Doomsday crushed DS with no head to head conflict. Head on, DS would simply BFR Doomsday to the end of time.
Doomsday utterly crushed DS, tho. Physically, he just wasn't quite there. And his fight with Orion wasn't all that decisive in putting him in the "physically beyond HH" category, either. "Beyond HH" should show him utterly schooling/slapping around HHs the way Thanos/DP Tyrant or SBP does it.I know that DS mostly has better feats than that, but the way Supes has been tooling him (tho he's had his moments as well) kinda lowers his overall value in terms of formidability.
Originally posted by TitoSanchez
Doomsday in that particular story was superior to Silver Surfer in that he could adapt to any given power including the Omegas. He was also able to resist high level time and matter manipulation in the form of waverider as well as resist being physically stronger than an amped Superman. Silver Surfer would have done worse against Doomsday than Darksied did considering DS's omegas are stronger than anything Surfer could crank out. Doomsday crushed DS with no head to head conflict. Head on, DS would simply BFR Doomsday to the end of time.
Surfer would actually do better against DD since he wouldn't try to fight him on the ground and wouldn't turn his back to him while monologing. 😛
SS'd prolly just BFR DD after figuring out he couldn't really put him down by blasting him.
Anyway, my point was ppl mentioned that DS is physically superior to most heralds (while the statement IS true as he IS physically superior to MOST heralds), I disagree to the implication that it would take a herald with "trans-level physical stats" like Superman to put DS down.
Superman is a HH physical combatant (tho he DOES have trans-level or higher showings if we base it on his high showings only) the same way that the Surfer is a HH energy manipulator (even tho he's been shown to manipulate abstract-level energies at times during his high showings). The way it is, Surfer's powerset is actually just as suited to fight DS as Superman is (but with different methods). It would be argued that DS would NEED to BFR the Surfer as the Surfer can use his board to deflect the OBs while blasting DS. Thing is, BFR works less on the Surfer than it would Supes as he has more ways to come back from it.
If Supes can beat DS, so can the Surfer. Thing is, DS would still win the majority, of course. But it is in no way a stomp or easy as some ppl would say it.
In no way can you project Superman's defeat of Darkseid to Surfer. It makes no sense.
Superman's combat speed and fighting prowess are far above that of Surfer, and that's really how Superman beat Darkseid: by getting super bloodlusted and unleashing a good old fashioned heroic beatdown. Surfer isn't doing that.
Originally posted by Omega Visionsurfer could age darkseid into an shriveled old man
In no way can you project Superman's defeat of Darkseid to Surfer. It makes no sense.Superman's combat speed and fighting prowess are far above that of Surfer, and that's really how Superman beat Darkseid: by getting super bloodlusted and unleashing a good old fashioned heroic beatdown. Surfer isn't doing that.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
In no way can you project Superman's defeat of Darkseid to Surfer. It makes no sense.Superman's combat speed and fighting prowess are far above that of Surfer, and that's really how Superman beat Darkseid: by getting super bloodlusted and unleashing a good old fashioned heroic beatdown. Surfer isn't doing that.
You're arguing that if Superman gets serious, he' beat DS but Surfer (who holds back less now than before, is more powerful, more durable and has a ton more options) can't?
Bias much?
Originally posted by 753
cmon, he beat brb fair and square. it was a good fight, but there was no doubt who was the strongets out of the 2.
He did, but before the board trick it was very even. Not a domination as was said.
Originally posted by 753
hum... I dont know about that. how they came back during imperative was never explained, but galactus has his humanoid star body that he uses to interact with the abstracts and apparently that would be m-body not his usual dorky one, neither seems to be limited in power. Given their backstory, the corpses they found of other proemial gods and how similar they were to G, being often compared to him, I'm guessing the same applies to them and those physical bodies are the real thing.
Breevort said m-body, but we don't take writers statements as facts but it does make sense.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
As much as you don't like it, SS dominated BRB. I find it stupid that ppl still argue that it was somehow an even fight based on the Surfer using his board to hit BRB behind his neck. :-/And saying "even match" is just retarded. Did the Surfer hit BRB behind his neck? Yes. Did he need to? No.
At NO point did it seem that BRB was shown to be even remotely a threat to the Surfer and at no time did he (even when he scored several hits) shown that he could actually injure the Surfer with his best shots. The Surfer took his best shots and took him down easily while obviously holding back and apologizing the whole time.
It was the board trick that got SS the edge, is it legal? Most definetly, but SS had to resort to it to get an edge. Which is fine, but not really a domination.
Originally posted by 753
nah...DS's recent performances against SM have watered him down to a high herald/very low trans. If SM can beat him, it's entirely plausible for SS to do so.I gave DS the win considering that his embarassing defeats at the hands of SM are mostly jobbing.
Supes lost all his recent encounters with DS. FC's countervibration was the one victory Supes had over DS in their last four battles.
Originally posted by AllanklesUhm, using jimmy olsen as k'nite is an example of him using someone else to gain an advantage.
Now DS needs people's help to beat Supes? With the exception of SF DS ko'ing Supes all other battles were DS under his own power.
We don't used amped Ds victories over Superman anyways.
Name the recent victories then.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Uhm, using jimmy olsen as k'nite is an example of him using someone else to gain an advantage.We don't used amped Ds victories over Superman anyways.
Name the recent victories then.
No. It's an example of using esoteric powers to gain advantage. Last I checked Jimmy was a conduit that DS had created i.e. he directed the New God powers to Jimmy then matter maniped Jimmy to emit kryptonite. He didn't use a device just the Omega Force. So yeah, esoteric abilities.
Who said anything to deny that? I was simply stating a fact, that in the last four most recent battles with Supes DS was 3 of 4. What part of that assesment is inaccurate? I was talking about recent encounters, and DS was amped for one of those (most people recall the Soul fire equation).
Originally posted by AllanklesJimmy doesn't normally have this power within him so yes he isn't capable of this on his own so yes he used jimmy's amp against Superman. On his own he couldn't beat Superman, yet again.
No. It's an example of using esoteric powers to gain advantage. Last I checked Jimmy was a conduit that DS had created i.e. he directed the New God powers to Jimmy then matter maniped Jimmy to emit kryptonite. He didn't use a device just the Omega Force. So yeah, esoteric abilities.Who said anything to deny that? I was simply stating a fact, that in the last four most recent battles with Supes DS was 3 of 4. What part of that assesment is inaccurate? I was talking about recent encounters, and DS was amped for one of those (most people recall the Soul fire equation).
You left out the context that without outside aid or an amp Ds hasn't beaten Superman lately at all.