Darkseid vs Silver Surfer(current)

Originally posted by quanchi112
Jimmy doesn't normally have this power within him so yes he isn't capable of this on his own so yes he used jimmy's amp against Superman. On his own he couldn't beat Superman, yet again.

You left out the context that without outside aid or an amp Ds hasn't beaten Superman lately at all.

It seemed to have flown over your head that Darkseid amped Jimmy by directing the New God powers and other powers from other superbeings he wanted to acquire (through their deaths) into Jimmy.

As in, he used his power to turn Jimmy into repository of energy, an energy which he planned to use at his leisure e.g. to quickly eliminate Superman if he interfered with his plans.

Darkseid used the Omega Force to make Jimmy a superbeing with multiple powers from the New Gods and other beings. He later simply matter manipulated Jimmy to end Supes interference.

It was an esoteric use of his own abilities, your opinion doesn't change facts.

Originally posted by Allankles
It seemed to have flown over your head that Darkseid amped Jimmy by directing the New God powers and other powers from other superbeings he wanted to acquire (through their deaths) into Jimmy.

As in, he used his power to turn Jimmy into repository of energy, an energy which he planned to use at his leisure e.g. to quickly eliminate Superman if he interfered with his plans.

Darkseid used the Omega Force to make Jimmy a superbeing with multiple powers from the New Gods and other beings. He later simply matter manipulated Jimmy to end Supes interference.

It was an esoteric use of his own abilities, your opinion doesn't change facts.

He used power outside his own through his own power. he doesn't have access to this power outside this appearance thus not applicable. You can try to dance around this all you want but I'm right.

The ability to transfer power and then matter manip are his. It's nothing like the cc, since the cc provides all the power and ability.

It was context specific and thus would be invalid in a forum battle, but it is valid as a canon victory under his own power, since he used his own power to achieve it (including amping Jimmy).

Originally posted by Allankles
The ability to transfer power and then matter manip are his. It's nothing like the cc, since the cc provides all the power and ability.

It was context specific and thus would be invalid in a forum battle, but it is valid as a canon victory under his own power, since he used his own power to achieve it (including amping Jimmy).

No, it isn't valid under his own power only through this story is it canon but not something he can do under his own power.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, but the power he had access to is not so not applicable.

No, it isn't valid under his own power only through this story is it canon but not something he can do under his own power.

Uhh. He can amp people in many ways under his own power and has done so, he can also matter manip and has done so. You've lost the argument.

I already said that it was context specific and would be invalid in a forum battle, specifically - using someone as a conduit for powers.

But as far as it being under his own power, it was definitely under his own capability, most especially the part where he turns Jimmy into walking kryptonite.

Jimmy's new powers allowed for his body to be manipulated into producing kryptonite radiation, that part is context specific and invalid in a forum battle (which is irrelevant to my argument), but it's not the actual power that transformed him, which was the Omega Force.

For once you actually have grounds for an argument. It is arguable. But the context - Jimmy's condition allowing for the manipulation of his cells, is context specific and invalid as a strategy in a forum battle, but the power that transformed him is DS' own, and is therefore valid in regards to it being a legitimate feat under his own power.

A simple analogy would be using magnetism to manipulate a person's body, with iron in the bloodstream it is possible (Jimmy's condition) without iron not possible. So the iron is context specific but the magnetism is not, same thing here. I'm not arguing a forum battle, simply the facts, which is that he did claim the victory using his own power.

Originally posted by Starscream M
surfer could age darkseid into an shriveled old man

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You're arguing that if Superman gets serious, he' beat DS but Surfer (who holds back less now than before, is more powerful, more durable and has a ton more options) can't?

Bias much?

As a result saying that Surfer can beat DS because Superman did is faulty reasoning.

Originally posted by Allankles
Uhh. He can amp people in many ways under his own power and has done so, he can also matter manip and has done so. You've lost the argument.

I already said that it was context specific and would be invalid in a forum battle, specifically - using someone as a conduit for powers.

But as far as it being under his own power, it was definitely under his own capability, most especially the part where he turns Jimmy into walking kryptonite.

Jimmy's new powers allowed for his body to be manipulated into producing kryptonite radiation, that part is context specific and invalid in a forum battle (which is irrelevant to my argument), but it's not the actual power that transformed him, which was the Omega Force.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
New Gods don't age you dolt.

No, I'm arguing that Surfer lacks Superman's CQC prowess and combat speed, the things that allowed Superman to overcome Darkseid.

As a result saying that Surfer can beat DS because Superman did is faulty reasoning.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
No, I'm arguing that Surfer lacks Superman's CQC prowess and combat speed, the things that allowed Superman to overcome Darkseid.

As a result saying that Surfer can beat DS because Superman did is faulty reasoning.

So you're saying that Superman beat DS because he is far Superior to DS in CQC combat prowess?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
So you're saying that Superman beat DS because he is far Superior to DS in CQC combat prowess?

OV would also believe that Superman is more durable, i'd bet.

and Quan, stop trolling. Seriously. You're on thin ice as it is. Even Bada won't protect you this far.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
So you're saying that Superman beat DS because he is far Superior to DS in CQC combat prowess?

He's not far superior, that much is evident in the fact that Superman's fights with Darkseid are always among his most intense and trying.

In either case, my point was that Surfer simply doesn't have the same fighting prowess and combat speed to replicate Superman's showings against DS the way Superman beat him. So the "Superman beat DS ergo Surfer can" isn't sound reasoning.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's certainly a more able brawler. Faster too.

He's not far superior, that much is evident in the fact that Superman's fights with Darkseid are always among his most intense and trying.

In either case, my point was that Surfer simply doesn't have the same fighting prowess and combat speed to replicate Superman's showings against DS the way Superman beat him. So the "Superman beat DS ergo Surfer can" isn't sound reasoning.

Thing, is DS isn't an accomplished range/flight combatant himself. He doesn't really fly around and attack his opponents at range by using speed and skill.

If anything, he's shown to BRAWL with his opponents or simply attack them with his OB.

The OB would hurt the Surfer, no doubt, if it would hit him. Thing is, if they travel at light speed, can't the Surfer (who travels millions of times that speed) simply outrun it? Superman has certainly evaded it before. Why not the Surfer? If not, he can always deflect it with his board (w/c has been shown to EASILY deflect Thor's hammer)?

SS is more accomplished than DS in the fighting style HE employs (flight/dodge/weave/blas). DS would most likely stand there hovering and blasting at SS with his OBs, w/c is questionable if he can hit the SS before the SS can strike him with planet destroying blasts.

If DS has shown the same/higher/comparative level of flight/blast/evasion skill that the Surfer has shown in his long history, pls show this via scans.

Superman's punches can sure hurt him, why not the Surfer's blasts?

So basically, Superman fights DS CQC (w/c is one of DS's preferred mode of combat) and wins due to superior skill and speed.

Surfer would fight DS at range, using speed, evasion, deflection (via board) and powerful ranged attacks (w/c, I believe is NOT DS's preferred mode of combat) and would also win via superior skill and speed.

they'd both lose without the assitance of pis because they're a lot weaker than him.

Originally posted by Starscream M
surfer could age darkseid into an shriveled old man

Originally posted by 753
they'd both lose without the assitance of pis because they're a lot weaker than him.

So you're saying that every win Supes has vs DS is PIS? And every instance Supes has hurt DS with his punches and HV is PIS?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
So you're saying that every win Supes has vs DS is PIS? And every instance Supes has hurt DS with his punches and HV is PIS?

No PIS, no way, DS takes a majority form both of them.

Originally posted by 753
hurt, no. besides, I'm talking about who takes a majority. SM's victories usually depend on retarded low showings from DS forggeting most of his powers or specific plot devices. HV has blocked the OB, DS was blinded by swallen eyes, SM blitzed the OBs and drove them into DS's ass, shoved him into the wall of the universe when DS was face to face with him and didnt fire the omega beams, the list goes on, and what the **** is counter-vibration?

No PIS, no way, DS takes a majority form both of them.

At worst they split 😖hifty:

Originally posted by 753
hurt, no. besides, I'm talking about who takes a majority. SM's victories usually depend on retarded low showings from DS forggeting most of his powers or specific plot devices. HV has blocked the OB, DS was blinded by swallen eyes, SM blitzed the OBs and drove them into DS's ass, shoved him into the wall of the universe when DS was face to face with him and didnt fire the omega beams, the list goes on, and what the **** is counter-vibration?

No PIS, no way, DS takes a majority form both of them.

Well, that's in accordance to what I previously said anyway.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
IMO, non-jobbing DS would squeek out a win. 6/10 mebbe.

High-showings DS would dominate.

But the DS that Superman keeps punking simply loses.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Surfer wins.

Nope. LOL 😉
Darkseid in a stomp.