The ENTIRE trans tier (as per the tierings here at KMC) vs...

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Explain how they get past 6.

By crushing them?

And what the hell is this order?

Easy Cube Being slightly > Skyfather (as mentioned by Thor in Atlantis Attacks Thor Annual). So two high end Skyfathers > one Cube Being.

Two Cube Beings slight > two high end Skyfathers.

Demogorge (classic) > any Skyfather or even group of them, hence > then two Cube Beings.

Asgardian Destroyer with Odin + all Asgard + Odin Sword took it to EIGHT Celestials. Sure he lost but hey.

Arshiem > any Celestial with exceptions like Exitar/Tiamut/Scathan.

Originally posted by zopzop
By crushing them?

Easy Cube Being slightly > Skyfather (as mentioned by Thor in Atlantis Attacks Thor Annual). So two high end Skyfathers > one Cube Being.

Two Cube Beings slight > two high end Skyfathers.

Demogorge (classic) > any Skyfather or even group of them, hence > then two Cube Beings.

Asgardian Destroyer with Odin + all Asgard + Odin Sword took it to EIGHT Celestials. Sure he lost but hey.

Arshiem > any Celestial with exceptions like Exitar/Tiamut/Scathan.

That logic is extremely flawed. Shaper has makes whole realities of his own every other appearance and Kubik warped a whole universe with ease.

Skyfathers don't even come close to that?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
They crush the 2000 foot asgardian destroyer?

No, they just BARELY clear it, and not without taking heavy casualties. Anyone before that they clear with moderate to high difficulty.

That logic is extremely flawed. Shaper has makes whole realities of his own every other appearance and Kubik warped a whole universe with ease.

When has the Shaper made ONE reality let alone "realities"? Kubik, ONCE, warped the half Cosmic Cube Beyonder's pocket dimension.

Skyfathers don't even come close to that?

Odin and Seth threatened all reality with destruction during their fight. Skyfathers aren't hurting for feats.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, they just BARELY clear it, and not without taking heavy casualties. Anyone before that they clear with moderate to high difficulty.

When has the Shaper made ONE reality let alone "realities"? Kubik, ONCE, warped the half Cosmic Cube Beyonder's pocket dimension.

Odin and Seth threatened all reality with destruction during their fight. Skyfathers aren't hurting for feats.

In a hulk issue. Odin has busted a galaxy ONCE. Odin has shaken the reality ONCE.

According to you ONCE feats don't count. They have done that ONCE.

not only that but you still haven't quantified that for me. Its just super flawed logic.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Who in the trans tier could even do damage to it?

Individually none of them. Collectively they take it down but lose many in the process.

In a hulk issue. Odin has busted a galaxy ONCE. Odin has shaken the reality ONCE.

According to you ONCE feats don't count. They have done that ONCE.

"In a Hulk issue" is not an answer. What Hulk issue so we can try to find it for context? Odin has busted galaxies more than once. Check his respect thread. You are correct that, to my knowledge, Odin has only shaken ALL reality only once. That's still better than anything Kubik or Shaper have done.

not only that but you still haven't quantified that for me. Its just super flawed logic.

My slow slow friend. The power output necessary for that feat is stupendous. Where does it rank as a combat feat is unknown since combat feats are fickle. We all saw what Spiderman did to Firelord and no one doubts Firelord's power output dwarfs Spiderman's.

Originally posted by zopzop
Individually none of them. Collectively they take it down but lose many in the process.

"In a Hulk issue" is not an answer. What Hulk issue so we can try to find it for context? Odin has busted galaxies more than once. Check his respect thread. You are correct that, to my knowledge, Odin has only shaken ALL reality only once. That's still better than anything Kubik or Shaper have done.

My slow slow friend. The power output necessary for that feat is stupendous. Where does it rank as a combat feat is unknown since combat feats are fickle. We all saw what Spiderman did to Firelord and no one doubts Firelord's power output dwarfs Spiderman's.

Somewhere between #150 and 180. So shaking is better then warping a whole universe IYO?

Combat feats>all else. And no. By combat feats we know firelord>spiderman. See this is that high/low showing thing you don't seem to get.

Where would you put MJJ and other reality warps.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Who of any can do damage to it? One bane against thanos meand nothing. Adding another hundred won't make them more effective.

INDIVIDUALLY none of them is a match for it, COLLECTIVELY they can take it down but lose many in the process. DP Tyrant could damage it, but just by himself he'd get crushed. Luckily he's not by himself.

Somewhere between #150 and 180. So shaking is better then warping a whole universe IYO?

Wow, way to narrow it down to 'only' thirty issues. Post the exact issue or retract and admit you were bullxxxing. Warping half a Cosmic Cube's pocket dimension vs shaking the entire multiverse (multiverse being an infinite collection of universes), guess which one is more impressive?

Combat feats>all else. And no. By combat feats we know firelord>spiderman. See this is that high/low showing thing you don't seem to get.

I know what a low showing is. But it still doesn't change the fact that Spiderman's combat feat win over Firelord is meaningless because we know Firelord's power output dwarfs Spiderman's.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Who in the trans tier could even do damage to it?

In a hulk issue. Odin has busted a galaxy ONCE. Odin has shaken the reality ONCE.

According to you ONCE feats don't count. They have done that ONCE.

not only that but you still haven't quantified that for me. Its just super flawed logic.

Odin has shown Galactic level 4 times at least. In the fourth instance he was operating far beyond Galaxy busting however. That's not including Odin's reality warping feats such as the remnants of his magic creating an entire dimension.

When did Odin bust a Galaxy in a Hulk issue? I didn't even know he'd ever appeared in a Hulk issue (Except the one where he brought back a dead Hulk to life in #102) much less bust a Galaxy in one.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When did Odin bust a Galaxy in a Hulk issue? I didn't even know he'd ever appeared in a Hulk issue (Except the one where he brought back a dead Hulk to life in #102) much less bust a Galaxy in one.

You misread him Rage. He said Shaper of Worlds has created realities. I asked him for an example of one, he said it happened in a Hulk issue. Then I asked him which one and he didn't give me a specific issue just a vague "150-180".

For reference, the official levels used for the Trans tier were anything below Skyfather and above High Herald. Basically, anyone above Surfer but below Odin.

I ended up disliking the tiers because people didn't see them for what they were: general guides for those uninformed about certain characters, not an end-all list. But if you're going to use them in a vs. thread, an understanding of the level is in order. Too often people form their own ideas without realizing the original intent of the labels placed on the tiers.

Here was the list at the time of the thread closure:

Originally posted by Digi
[b]Tier 4 (Highest)

Amazo, Appolyon, Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Doomsday (H/P), Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus [/B]

Originally posted by zopzop
INDIVIDUALLY none of them is a match for it, COLLECTIVELY they can take it down but lose many in the process. DP Tyrant could damage it, but just by himself he'd get crushed. Luckily he's not by himself.

Wow, way to narrow it down to 'only' thirty issues. Post the exact issue or retract and admit you were bullxxxing. Warping half a Cosmic Cube's pocket dimension vs shaking the entire multiverse (multiverse being an infinite collection of universes), guess which one is more impressive?

I know what a low showing is. But it still doesn't change the fact that Spiderman's combat feat win over Firelord is meaningless because we know Firelord's power output dwarfs Spiderman's.

Warping an entire universe.

Yes. Because of other combat feats we know this.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Odin has shown Galactic level 4 times at least. In the fourth instance he was operating far beyond Galaxy busting however. That's not including Odin's reality warping feats such as the remnants of his magic creating an entire dimension.

When did Odin bust a Galaxy in a Hulk issue? I didn't even know he'd ever appeared in a Hulk issue (Except the one where he brought back a dead Hulk to life in #102) much less bust a Galaxy in one.

Originally posted by Digi
For reference, the official levels used for the Trans tier were anything below Skyfather and above High Herald. Basically, anyone above Surfer but below Odin.

I ended up disliking the tiers because people didn't see them for what they were: general guides for those uninformed about certain characters, not an end-all list. But if you're going to use them in a vs. thread, an understanding of the level is in order. Too often people form their own ideas without realizing the original intent of the labels placed on the tiers.

Here was the list at the time of the thread closure:

Ah...NOW I understand what you all did; above Surfer and below Odin, you labled all who met that criteria as "Trans."

So even if a character is a low or medium Skyfather (and thus would be under Odin), they still ended up in the Trans Tier...

So that explains why DP Tyrant is included here as he is (or rather the consensus was) below Odin...

Dp Tyrant and Thanos are certainly not Trans level

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Dp Tyrant and Thanos are certainly not Trans level

DP Tyrant, I agree fully; I'd put him around a mid-level Skyfather...

Thanos, I am "iffy" about; I look at him like I do Thor...

Most of the time Thor is in the high herald catagory, but he has a knack of reaching performance levels that are quite Trans level...

IMHO, Thanos is the same way; most of the time, he is Trans, but he does break into the low end of Skyfather from time to time...

Well Lord of Murder... that was a pretty fair assessment on your part and while I disagree (as I feel they are higher than you rank them) it was still pretty fair and worth a 👆

@Thanosi...

Where would you rank them then? Also, who would you consider a low Skyfather?

Well, imo Tyrant is at least High Skyfather level = to Odin. Obviously, you've seen my post and I even feel like he's beyond the Skyfather category. Thanos.. I feel like is a low to mid skyfather level. However, I'm not opposed to Low as I think that is pretty fair. I do agree about characters fluctuating in power.. from Trans to Sky or whatever the case may be. Thanos is no different imo and does so as well.

Low Skyfathers to me would be... DS, Monarch, Zuras, Mephisto maybe even GA Prime..

Originally posted by Black bolt z
DP tyrant isn't a trans...

According to the OP, we are using this list :

Here was the list at the time of the thread closure:
Amazo, Appolyon, Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Doomsday (H/P), Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus

We are using that list for the sake of the thread. Whether he is or isn't, isn't the point.

Warping an entire universe.

Warping a pocket dimension created by the power of 1/2 a Cosmic Cube vs threatening all reality with destruction and rocking the multiverse (the multiverse is an INFINITE collection of universes).

Yes. Because of other combat feats we know this. Please name all the times Odin has busted a galaxy.

Now answer my question, in which issue of the Hulk did Shaper create a reality?

I don't know man... I personally feel like WWH would do very well against supes and possible take a clear majority. People that would do good against WWH would be very versatile and powerful foes, who don't have to go fisticuffs with him. Supes would certainly go that route, and imo, that would be his downfall