Originally posted by Konton
Well, classic Wondy wins because she's just outright immune. Supes would be most vulnerable. I'd put Surfer above Thor.Current Wondy may be barely a step ahead of Kal as far as grit goes. Surfer would be first. Thor second.
This question is misleading, as there are multiple meanings/layers to "mental attack/assault", and each would respond differently to different types/qualities.
Standard WW isn't *immune* to telepathic assault/reading, but rather highly resistant to it, with her peak resistance correlating to any attack/manipulation that would cause her not to see things as they truly are/perceive Reality(tm) in a manner which was untruthful (hence, she's effectively immune to the mental manipulations of Doctor Psycho, highly resistant to mental dominiation/control (a la' Maxwell Lord), and pretty resistant to direct telepathic assault (many instances), but *can* have her mind be read -- just she is more resistant to casual/non-persistant mind-reading than most would be.
Superman is actually mentally very tough/resistant to many form of TP/Mind Control/Influence/Reading, but qualitatively different from many others': even in the case with Maxwell Lord, the control he exerted was so powerful because he had spent *years* gently nudging Supes mind this way, then that way, and planting suggestions like landmines/traps -- outright control, off-the-cuff, would have been problematic. Supes has pretty good resistance across the board, but isn't immune -- his resistance comes more from having a powerful mind than from a "super-power" that aids him, as such.
Thor, while not as powerful as he was during the more proper Mythic Ages, is still a god, and while certain personality traits leave him vulnerable to certain manipulations/revelations (probing for instances where Thor was angered, or conversly was particularly calm and/or noble, would be fairly easy, given his mindset, and telepathic/telempathic manipulations that would provoke anger -- and particularly righteous indignation -- would be easier than other forms of attack), overall he still has mental aspects akin to many gods (though not nearly as great as many others, as it really isn't his forte'😉, and is pretty resistant compared to most heroes, contextually speaking. He is less-so *resistant* to mental attacks, as he is strong in *asserting* his will *against* a problem/opposition, meaning he is likely more vulnerable to telepathic attack, and *initial* influence/control, but would be very strong in terms of *breaking* such control, once he was aware of it, and certainly could "push through" many forms of directed influence.
Silver Surfer is the most experienced, contextually, in terms of both asserting his will, resisting certain influences (or at least being aware of and understanding their natures), and comprehending when such things are taking place. He's not mentally unstoppable, of course, and his strongest areas of influence are still more physical than mental, but he is likely the overall best in this group, with each of the other three excelling/exceeding him in the one or two aspects they are best inclined for (WW for perceiving influence/resisting deception; Thor for "bull-in-a-china-shop"-ing his way out of mental control; SM for being more or less on par with many/most telepaths in the assertion/resistance department, though Supes lacks the proper understanding/finesse many would have, particularly SS).
So, as a quick reference, I'd say:
Silver Surfer
Superman, Thor, Wonder Woman, in a more or less three-way tie, with each having advatages/strengths in their particular arenas/inclinations; Supes, however, does have another narrative drawback in that *mystical* telepathy -- as opposed to biological/mutant-based telepathy-- would lower his resistance considerably, and in that regard he is quite behind Thor and WW. In that context, it might be fair to say:
SS
Thor/WW
SM
(Note, however, that I wouldn't put Surfer really "above" them by much, as again it depends on circumstances and specific details... just saying as a general ballpark range...)
Originally posted by tideoftimeactually I believe that supes TP resistance comes from his "super-concentration"
This question is misleading, as there are multiple meanings/layers to "mental attack/assault", and each would respond differently to different types/qualities.Standard WW isn't *immune* to telepathic assault/reading, but rather highly resistant to it, with her peak resistance correlating to any attack/manipulation that would cause her not to see things as they truly are/perceive Reality(tm) in a manner which was untruthful (hence, she's effectively immune to the mental manipulations of Doctor Psycho, highly resistant to mental dominiation/control (a la' Maxwell Lord), and pretty resistant to direct telepathic assault (many instances), but *can* have her mind be read -- just she is more resistant to casual/non-persistant mind-reading than most would be.
Superman is actually mentally very tough/resistant to many form of TP/Mind Control/Influence/Reading, but qualitatively different from many others': even in the case with Maxwell Lord, the control he exerted was so powerful because he had spent *years* gently nudging Supes mind this way, then that way, and planting suggestions like landmines/traps -- outright control, off-the-cuff, would have been problematic. Supes has pretty good resistance across the board, but isn't immune -- his resistance comes more from having a powerful mind than from a "super-power" that aids him, as such.
Thor, while not as powerful as he was during the more proper Mythic Ages, is still a god, and while certain personality traits leave him vulnerable to certain manipulations/revelations (probing for instances where Thor was angered, or conversly was particularly calm and/or noble, would be fairly easy, given his mindset, and telepathic/telempathic manipulations that would provoke anger -- and particularly righteous indignation -- would be easier than other forms of attack), overall he still has mental aspects akin to many gods (though not nearly as great as many others, as it really isn't his forte'😉, and is pretty resistant compared to most heroes, contextually speaking. He is less-so *resistant* to mental attacks, as he is strong in *asserting* his will *against* a problem/opposition, meaning he is likely more vulnerable to telepathic attack, and *initial* influence/control, but would be very strong in terms of *breaking* such control, once he was aware of it, and certainly could "push through" many forms of directed influence.
Silver Surfer is the most experienced, contextually, in terms of both asserting his will, resisting certain influences (or at least being aware of and understanding their natures), and comprehending when such things are taking place. He's not mentally unstoppable, of course, and his strongest areas of influence are still more physical than mental, but he is likely the overall best in this group, with each of the other three excelling/exceeding him in the one or two aspects they are best inclined for (WW for perceiving influence/resisting deception; Thor for "bull-in-a-china-shop"-ing his way out of mental control; SM for being more or less on par with many/most telepaths in the assertion/resistance department, though Supes lacks the proper understanding/finesse many would have, particularly SS).
So, as a quick reference, I'd say:
Silver Surfer
Superman, Thor, Wonder Woman, in a more or less three-way tie, with each having advatages/strengths in their particular arenas/inclinations; Supes, however, does have another narrative drawback in that *mystical* telepathy -- as opposed to biological/mutant-based telepathy-- would lower his resistance considerably, and in that regard he is quite behind Thor and WW. In that context, it might be fair to say:
SSThor/WW
SM(Note, however, that I wouldn't put Surfer really "above" them by much, as again it depends on circumstances and specific details... just saying as a general ballpark range...)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympuslol hypocrisy much?It is amusing how you place Diana above Thor when you outright admit you don't know much about her resistance in the very same post. Very Starscream of you.
you were the one who in one sentence proclaimed no knowledge of runner's durability and then confidently assessed that thor would overwhelm his durability 🙄
Originally posted by PlacidityAnytime he wants to bring a well argumented position, instead of a superficial, albeit well-written text on how he feels things are, I'll be right here.
Geez nice 'debating' method guys.I mean TideofTime made such a long and well thought out post, even if you disagree, I think he deserves a better rebuttal than just a mere one-word "wrong" post.
idk how Diana would be tied with Thor or really even Superman when she is the only one of the lot with telepathic resistance ACTUALLY being part of her powerset instead of something narration and plot progression requires for her to get by. The Eye of Pallas allows her to see through any illusion and has allowed her to shrug off mental assault for a while now.
Superman, as illustrated in Sacrifice and several other enounters, has a tendency to fall under mind control and then fight Wondy- who resists it. I get that he has stupid tp resistance feats but still.
I've seen Thor fall for Sersi's illusions and she's kind of blah as far as tp goes.
Surfer is more quantifiable though and I can actually respect his shit.
I say
Diana
Surfer
Thor/Supes
Originally posted by Placidityhe just has to get a mod to edit it to say superman, and everyone will be able to sleep at night
Geez nice 'debating' method guys.I mean TideofTime made such a long and well thought out post, even if you disagree, I think he deserves a better rebuttal than just a mere one-word "wrong" post.