Thor vs Superman vs Surfer vs Wonder Woman: Mental Toughness

Started by Rage.Of.Olympus4 pages

Originally posted by Starscream M
lol hypocrisy much?

you were the one who in one sentence proclaimed no knowledge of runner's durability and then confidently assessed that thor would overwhelm his durability 🙄

Haha what?

How many times have I stressed the importance of reading my posts before commenting on them? Can you get like a poster of this hung on your wall or something?

Once you outright admitted you replied to my post without taking the time to read.

Either you're the dumbest person I've come across on battle boards, or you're the one with the shortest memory.

Long conditioning is only needed if he wants to make someone a puppet. If he wants to control someone into, say, standing there helplessly, he can do that on the spot.

Originally posted by Bentley
When non-fanboy people with credibility say that Diana has good tp defenses I'm inclined to believe them. Now, I assume you think the winner would be Thor?

Thanks.

The only person that ranked Diana above Thor possessed some inherent biased opinion towards her. Going off of what people post is something you should do by the way.

Does Diana have good telepathic resistance? Sure. Does she have telepathic resistance above Thor, Superman etc.? Not that I've seen. I'd wager I can post telepathic resistance feats for Thor that match Diana's. That being said, I'm not sure who'd win. I think Thor and Superman have the most driving will power however.

Not a compliment.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haha what?

How many times have I stressed the importance of reading my posts before commenting on them? Can you get like a poster of this hung on your wall or something?

Once you outright admitted you replied to my post without taking the time to read.

Either you're the dumbest person I've come across on battle boards, or you're the one with the shortest memory.

OooO burn lol

Originally posted by Q99
Long conditioning is only needed if he wants to make someone a puppet. If he wants to control someone into, say, standing there helplessly, he can do that on the spot.

but he didn't do that with superman. his control was only possible from the years it took of nudging his way in.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The only person that ranked Diana above Thor possessed some inherent biased opinion towards her. Going off of what people post is something you should do by the way.

Don't call 'inherently biased' just because you disagree. There's a pretty solid argument for her.

If you think Thor's got better, post why. Complaining on it's own isn't debating.

---

Here's a question- Who here can name a time Wonder Woman has been mind controlled? I can't, though the hypothetical possibility has been raised (albeit with a specific note that it'd require a massively powerful force to do so).

I can name several that Superman has (both conventional and magic. Dominus, Maxwell Lord, and Crucifier all come to mind. Though the last is one I'm willing to write off as PIS, even with it being magic).

What's Thor and Surfer's track records? Hasn't Amora gotten Thor a few times? And Moondragon did once as well.

I can't think of any instances of Surfer, but someone more knowledgeable might be able to shed some light.

Originally posted by Q99
Don't call 'inherently biased' just because you disagree. There's a pretty solid argument for her.

If you think Thor's got better, post why. Complaining on it's own isn't debating.

Tideoftime has an inherent bias towards Wonder Woman. It's not a knock against the poster. I'm a Thorbag through and through. People have preferences.

I just find it illogical to claim Wonder Woman has better defenses than Thor despite admitting not knowing much about her. When asked for a reason, his response can be summed up as "because that dude above me said it". That's something Starscream would do. Not Bentley. I'm disappoint.

In a contest as specific as this, I'm not sure who'd win. I don't pretend to know every single time said characters have come up against mental manipulation. Thor excluded.

I'm not complaining. Simply pointing out the fallacious reasoning.

Originally posted by Q99
Hasn't Amora gotten Thor a few times? And Moondragon did once as well.

I think she might have been able to control Thor once in the Silver Age. I'm not sure. At the very least, Amora's charms have consistently failed against Thor.

Yup, Moondragon was able to manipulate Thor at one point.

Question: How does Donald Blake apply here? There have been instances where the Thor persona has been controlled but his been able to resist control enough to transform, completely breaking any control.

At the very least, when Thor/Blake work together or merge, there resistance goes up. It's a weird relationship. There the same being/entity, but at the same time they're not.

I have no idea what the relationship is now however.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haha what?

How many times have I stressed the importance of reading my posts before commenting on them? Can you get like a poster of this hung on your wall or something?

Once you outright admitted you replied to my post without taking the time to read.

Either you're the dumbest person I've come across on battle boards, or you're the one with the shortest memory.

you're a clown! how did I misinterpret your post this time? 🙄

You clearly said you didn't know runners durability and then proceeded to claim thor would overwhelm it!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm a Thorbag through and through.

I can think of another type of -bag to call you!!! 😠

Originally posted by Q99
What's Thor and Surfer's track records? Hasn't Amora gotten Thor a few times? And Moondragon did once as well.

Thor got influenced by a weakened Moondragon and more recently by Diablo, he also was unable to break through Korvac's hypnosis.

Moondragon was weakened? Really?

I'm not sure where to rank the Diablo scene. It was claimed by Thor that he learned new magic and such in the new issue so I'm unclear.

Originally posted by Starscream M
you're a clown! how did I misinterpret your post this time? 🙄

You clearly said you didn't know runners durability and then proceeded to claim thor would overwhelm it!

I can think of another type of -bag to call you!!! 😠

Find the thread. Read my stance.

Completely false. As a matter of fact, I outright said I don't think the Runner would be knocked out by Thor as I don't know what it would take to knock him out. I only stated that I highly doubted the Runner was beyond Thor's ability to hurt or knock out. I never pushed it as a win. My main argument was battle field removal for Thor.

Did I hurt your feelings?

Here are all Thor's memorable will power feats so people can judge where he ranks by themselves. It's missing three instances of mental manipulation from the First Thunder miniseries however.

As a mortal, Thor resists the Enchantress, and breaks her embrace. Something no one had ever done yet.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsEnchantress.jpg

Breaks free of the mental state he was placed in by Meru, the Mind Bender.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMeruMindBender.jpg

Proves to be immune to the mystic musical control of Ares.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsAvengers8.jpg

The Corruptor who has the ability to corrupt people with his evil touch -as he possesses the evil of all the ages combined- fails to overcome Thor’s will.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsCorruptor1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsCorruptor2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsCorruptor3.jpg

Resists a demonic psychic manifestation attempting to feed on the emotional energy he was emanating.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower18.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower19.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower20.jpg

Withstands multiple psychic assaults from the Black Abbott and all of his bodies.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsBlackAbbott1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsBlackAbbott2.jpg

Despite taken by surprise, Thor resists the Rigellian Mind Thrust.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindThrust1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindThrust2.jpg

Later on, Thor isn't even slowed down by the Mind Thrust of multiple Rigellians.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindThrust3.jpg

Engages and defeats Kronin Krask in a battle of wills that is so intense, it is visible to the naked eye.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/WillPower9.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/WillPower10.jpg

Defeats the Fear-Eater by overcoming his greatest fear.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsFearEater1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsFearEater2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsFearEater3.jpg

Resists the Eye of Horus used by the Egyptian God Horus.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod4.jpg

Doctor Druid fails to manipulate Thor’s thoughts.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorrResistsDoctorDruid1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorrResistsDoctorDruid2.jpg

Upon seeing Jane Foster in danger, Thor breaks free from the control of the Gypsy and her Mind Jewel.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGypsyControl2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGypsyControl3.jpg
Note: This Jewel gave her enough power to easily take over the mind of someone as powerful as Firelord.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGypsyControl1.jpg

Breaks free from the control of an amped Puppet Master.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsPuppetMaster1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsPuppetMaster2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsPuppetMaster3.jpg

A teenage Thor resists the enchantment of Odin's magical Mirror.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMycha1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMycha2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMycha3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMycha4.jpg


Thor's is able to break down the mental barrier that hides the primal memories he inherited from Odin.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower16.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower17.jpg

Mind blasts from Moondragon -who possessed the Mind Gem- do not even slow Thor down.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/InfinityWatchvsThor1fight8.jpg

Thor is able to resist and stop Loki's spirit from merging with his body and mind.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsLokiSpirit1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsLokiSpirit2.jpg

After Thor allows Loki to enter his body, Thor forcefully casts him out.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsLokiSpirit3.jpg

The Hell Lord Mephisto is unable to break Thor's will despite subjecting him to terrible torture, tempting him with great gifts and even goes as far as consuming Thor's immortal soul. All to no avail.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMephisto3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMephisto4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMephisto5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMephisto6.jpg

Using the long lost magical elixir of Lorn, Lorelei forces Thor to fall madly in love with her and obey her every command. However, upon seeing her with Loki and getting angry, Thor proves that the elixir is not infallible after all....
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsElixirofLofn1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsElixirofLofn2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsElixirofLofn4.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsElixirofLofn5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsLoki53.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsLoki54.jpg

Withstands a mind blast from the cosmic being Stranger that none of the Avengers including Moondragon can do.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindBlastStranger.jpg
Note: Moondragon even comments on how the Stranger seemed nearly omnipotent in terms of psychic power.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindBlastStranger2.jpg

Thor resists the mental spell of the Dromedan himself.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan2.jpg

Thor is able to withstand a mental assault from Dromedan again. The same assault also put down the great Eternals Virako and Valkin.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan4.jpg

Thor once more gets mentally attacked and withstands the Dromedan.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan5.jpg

Darkoth uses his brainwave manipulating firehorns to turn Thor's own indomitable awesome will on himself and where another would have fallen, Thor stands.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsDarkoth5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsDarkoth6.jpg

Thor is the first Avenger to realize that Morgan was warping reality using the Twilight Sword and then resists her control over his mind.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistMorganLeFay1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistMorganLeFay2.jpg

Thor overcomes the destructive nature of the Destroyer armor when he takes control of it.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower14.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower15.jpg
Thor once again overcomes the will of the Destroyer when he defeats it in battle. Notice how the Destroyer was shitting itself once it realized it was facing Thor.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsDestroyer1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsDestroyer2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsDestroyer3.jpg

Moondragon with help from the Mind Gem is barely able to break Thor's mental defenses even in a catatonic state.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill2.jpg

It turns out however that Thor was playing possum so as to get Thanos, Dr. Strange, the Silver Surfer, Drax, Adam Warlock, Moondragon, and Maxam onto a psychic plane of existence. Here he engages them all in a battle of will and successfully traps them in a maelstrom of madness. Their one and only chance was to combine all of their wills with that of Thanos into a sudden attack to barely break free.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill6.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill7.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill8.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill9.jpg

In a fight that defies mortal comprehension, Odin attempts to spiritually/mentally defeat a portion of Thor's psyche and fails.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill10.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill11.jpg

Nice feats 👆

You also reminded me that Terminatrix mindcontrolled Thor using techermm

Originally posted by -Pr-
max lord took years to get in to superman's mind. using it as some sort of insta-mind control is ridiculous.

Agree, that is a pretty weak example and leaves out a lot of context

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Tideoftime has an inherent bias towards Wonder Woman. It's not a knock against the poster. I'm a Thorbag through and through. People have preferences.

Whoa -- back it up there... let me clarify something for the umpteenth time:

*I* don't have a bias in terms of WW -- that is an assumption some people make because of the times Quan and I have had opposing views, which is more about *Quan's* biases, than any minor ones I may possess. There have been a number of WW-included threads I have not participated in, and several where I disagreed with others who thought she would win/whatever a given subject. Don't confuse me with h1a8, or certain others...

I never ranked Diana above Thor, but said that she, he, and Supes would be in roughly a three-way tie, but with different areas of emphasis, and in those areas each of the three would have the general advantage over the others, contextually. Now, someone can certainly disagree with that statement/assessment, and I won't nay-say them their opinion. But I *never* ranked her above Thor (unless you, or whomever, are confusing the *order* in which I described my reasonings for the order I'd rank them in... which might occur if someone just cursorily scanned my post, but otherwise I said very clearly at the bottom how I'd rank them).

Just wanting to set *that* record straight...

*****

As far as further up posts questioning my reasonings, I based it largely on both demonstrated instances of resistance (or lack thereof), stated-on-panel instances that I recall (even if they were simply *statements*, rather than action scenes, as they at least provide *some* level of criteria for gauging), and related, conceptual abilities (SS powers, while largely physical in nature, have relatable qualities that can enhance his mental abilities -- his CA, and such, that reasonably affect his awareness/resistance to such things). Note, further, that I didn't qualify the idea that SS was somehow supremely resistant, or that he was much above the group he is included with: I had stated that I ranked him first, but not by much, just more as a means of "If somebody just *has* to be first, I'd put him there". Otherwise, I consider the group to be in the same general ballpark, but with different areas of emphasis and advantages; this isn't a simple thing like brute physical strength, that at least contextually can be better understood/grasped -- it's a much less straigth-forward thing, and very murky when you really start to think about it.

Don't ask me why as I have no reasoning for it but i see supes being the most vulnerable.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Don't ask me why as I have no reasoning for it but i see supes being the most vulnerable.
why?

Originally posted by Starscream M
why?
creepsmile

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Excellent collection of examples -- I, unfortunately, don't have such, which apparently annoyed someone further up the list, but whatever...

*****

Those examples are point-on about my general assessment of Thor: his *is* resistant, and has the mind of god, and his *greatest* advantages come when he is butting-heads directly against a defined opposition -- Thor certainly has one of the strongest assertive wills around: I'd pit his active will against any GL (yes, even Hal), and sit back with popcorn.

But Thor also has had his share of low-showings (as has everyone, of course), and it pretty much plays out that his *assertive* will is the key to his "wins", in most cases, and I'd place many other beings above him in terms of finessed mental resistances/abilities that aid in mental battles.

But that's my view/take on it.

Now, if you're using that list to put Thor above SS, I'd say that is a good counter-arguement to my (and others'😉 putting SS on top... my scans/caps are very, very limited, so I'll leave it to others to carry on that fight, if they want. Good collection, though, for Thor.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Excellent collection of examples -- I, unfortunately, don't have such, which apparently annoyed someone further up the list, but whatever...

*****

Those examples are point-on about my general assessment of Thor: his *is* resistant, and has the mind of god, and his *greatest* advantages come when he is butting-heads directly against a defined opposition -- Thor certainly has one of the strongest assertive wills around: I'd pit his active will against any GL (yes, even Hal), and sit back with popcorn.

But Thor also has had his share of low-showings (as has everyone, of course), and it pretty much plays out that his *assertive* will is the key to his "wins", in most cases, and I'd place many other beings above him in terms of finessed mental resistances/abilities that aid in mental battles.

But that's my view/take on it.

Now, if you're using that list to put Thor above SS, I'd say that is a good counter-arguement to my (and others'😉 putting SS on top... my scans/caps are very, very limited, so I'll leave it to others to carry on that fight, if they want. Good collection, though, for Thor.

I can honestly say I likes Nova.
and it looks like you likes Wondy.

😉