Thor Or Orion?

Clark's just lucky that Batman was too busy and let Orion deal with him.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Mantis? I remember Valkyrie batteling Orion. She was called the greatest martial artist in the universe and held tournaments as well. Orion was in a pacifist state and nearly beat her until Highfather interrupted it.

When Valkyrie ambushed Orion in the beginning of the fight, the Forever people claimed if Orion was in his prime, Val wouldn't have gotten 5 meters of Orion or something to that.

In Simonson's Orion, Orion claimed he knew all forms of warfare from across the universe.

Maybe that's who his referring to because I've read his fight(s) with Mantis, and there isn't anything worth noting as I can tell.

Valkyrie is his former master/trainer no? That was the fight I was referring to. It was a decent enough brawl as I recall. Not anything Thor hasn't done though. IIRC, she kicked his ass after a bull rush for two pages, and then Orion was reborn, punched her three times, the end. That was a better showing of will power than skill to be honest.

IIRC, in the fight that we saw, he didn't see her coming but there was a time that Orion would have nailed her before she got some distance to him.

Forgot about that.

whag feats show thor is a better fighter?

Fighter or martial artist? I think Orion is probably a better martial artist. I think Thor is at the very least is as formidable in hand to hand.

Either way, I posted a link in the previous page. Go over his feats and come to your own decision.

That reminds me, I think I'm going to update Thor's hand to hand section. There are some scenes where he outmaneuvers Hercules.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm pretty sure Darkseid threw the fight against Orion however. Impressive either way but it should be noted. [/B]

Simonson clarified that Darkseid was 'giving it his all', and that had he been holding back 'even a little' that Orion, as the ultimate fighter and his father's son, would know and the entire ruse would immediately have been up.

So while that last bit WAS Darkseid 'throwing it' (either because he would have been able to survive the omegas or change their course or both, I don't care which interpretation you've got), up until that point it was supposedly the typical, reasonable course of any battle between them, as Simonson saw it.

Originally posted by Prep-Man

In Simonson's Orion, Orion claimed he knew all forms of warfare from across the universe. [/B]

To be clear, that doesn't necessarily mean hand to hand combat knowledge. That was just Simonson playing with, and reinforcing, that Orion is TRULY a god of war, and the breadth and depth of his knowledge (in this case indepth knowledge on the mechanism of function and history of the "Ivy Mike" nuclear bomb, one of the most powerful explosions set off in the history of the world) goes beyond the logic. Sort of a unique cosmic awareness is how I look at it, though I try not to think about it too analytically -- ruins the fun.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Maybe that's who his referring to because I've read his fight(s) with Mantis, and there isn't anything worth noting as I can tell.

His fights with Slig and the Deep Six, on the other hand, were quite impressive. All of them, in fact.

Valkyrie is his former master/trainer no? That was the fight I was referring to. It was a decent enough brawl as I recall. Not anything Thor hasn't done though. IIRC, she kicked his ass after a bull rush for two pages, and then Orion was reborn, punched her three times, the end. That was a better showing of will power than skill to be honest.

IIRC, in the fight that we saw, he didn't see her coming but there was a time that Orion would have nailed her before she got some distance to him.

The Orion there was stupified, having just been ripped from the Source (and merged with Desaad, as it turned out). He was incapable of fighting for the entire first part of the battle. When he got serious it was only he that landed blows. She didn't seem to have a chance.

Originally posted by Desaad
Simonson clarified that Darkseid was 'giving it his all', and that had he been holding back 'even a little' that Orion, as the ultimate fighter and his father's son, would know and the entire ruse would immediately have been up.

So while that last bit WAS Darkseid 'throwing it' (either because he would have been able to survive the omegas or change their course or both, I don't care which interpretation you've got), up until that point it was supposedly the typical, reasonable course of any battle between them, as Simonson saw it.

I know Darkseid was giving it his all for almost all of it in hand to hand. I just wanted to point out that he threw the fight in the end.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I know Darkseid was giving it his all for almost all of it in hand to hand. I just wanted to point out that he threw the fight in the end.

Sure, but he was losing before he ultimately threw it.

The showing remains untouched, and the general trend can be extrapolated (since the point of him resorting, unfairly, to his Omega beams was that he was losing the purely physical battle).

I think that's worth clarifying.

Like I said, it was impressive, Darkseid was giving it his all, but the final victory came from him throwing the fight. So I wouldn't put it in the win column for Orion. I'm not trying to take anything away from the feat. I simply thought it was something worth mentioning.

if the fight were to go on, orion would have won. just like he did in countdown.

IIRC the whole event was set up so that DS could remove himself, and thereby be able to observe the full capabilities of the ALE.

He needed to lose, so maybe Orion would've won regardless. On the other hand if he could take himself out of the fight in such a way that Orion didn't suspect a scheme, then he certainly could've controlled circumstances to favor himself if his plans didn't involve losing.

Basically he gave it his all, but he used weapons he knew Orion would counter. In different circumstances he might be inclined to stack the deck, like usual.