my view of heaven!
People always say that your mind is extremly powerful...more powerful than what we can imagine. So if it was so powerful and if this power cannot be tapped into in life....can it in death? What I am saying is maybe when we die our mind works overtime and our imagination helps guide us through death. So if you think or believe your going to hell in life than your mind might simulate what hell would be in death. Vice versa for heaven.
Our minds decay soon after death, despite some cursory electrical activity after we die. What then? We also need oxygen for our brains to function on anything resembling a normal level, which we wouldn't be receiving in death. How is the brain doing anything resembling life, much less heaven or hell, in death? Actual mechanisms please, not philosophical wishing.
Also, a brain simulating hell in death (even if such a thing were possible, which is almost certainly is not) is no different than a brain simulating hell in life. Even if your premise were correct (again, dubious at best), it wouldn't validate an actual heaven or hell in any colloquial religious sense.
Truth is, people just have ideas like these, all kinds of people from all walks of life. I hate addressing them because I usually end up sounding way more scathing than I intend to be. Or rather, I do intend the logic of my rebuttals to be scathing to the initial point, but apparently my tone and approach leaves something to be desired. It's hard separating personal beliefs from personal feelings toward others, so it's easier for most to take offense to attacks on their beliefs than it is for me.
Long story short, I guess I want to absolutely lay into ideas I find absurd without having to deal with the social fallout from friends or acquaintances. It would also make discourse easier, since it would be easier to engage in debate and find those instances where I'm wrong (because they do exist for all of us, we often just aren't challenged in the right way to expose it). But alas. I suppose that's part of the appeal of internet forums. Anyway, sorry there Leonard...most of that wasn't aimed at you specifically. Your post just got me to rant a bit in general.
Originally posted by LeonardEdgarSounds like you might wanna read The Tibetan Book of the Dead.
People always say that your mind is extremly powerful...more powerful than what we can imagine. So if it was so powerful and if this power cannot be tapped into in life....can it in death? What I am saying is maybe when we die our mind works overtime and our imagination helps guide us through death.
Who not think allready died! Use your minds taking space these area is your living room where nothing can beat you against what you think!
The actual random situation on place earth change everything and all mind. People think and act for their thoughts even they would die for it.
The opportunity about never ending artificial humanoide life gives this situation a new dimension to all armed forces if we like we change everything.
Originally posted by DigiI have a similar 'idea' as his. I think that...it is possible for this, I am not convinced of it though. I think that your "mind" is not the same as your brain, which I think you are saying decays after death. The brain is simply what communicates with the mind (or the spirit), so I can see what he is saying to be somewhat true.
Our minds decay soon after death.
That being said, I don't think it is true. I think that when we die, our "mind" (but I really mean spirit) is no longer limited by the human brain anymore, and so we will have a perfect knowledge of things we couldn't have before, and God judges us and places us in our appropriate place. And in my religion it isn't simply heaven or hell, in fact, what most people call hell, is actually part of heaven, just segregated from the rest. There are three degrees of glory in heaven, Celestial, where you will be with God, and Jesus...now I always mix these two up, but there is the telestial and terestial, and then the outer darkness, which is "hell" but different than most peoples. We believe than outer darkness is only for those who have a perfect knowledge, and still reject Christ, like a prophet, or Satan, so most people wont go to outer darkness.
Originally posted by menokokoro
I have a similar 'idea' as his. I think that...it is possible for this, I am not convinced of it though. I think that your "mind" is not the same as your brain, which I think you are saying decays after death. The brain is simply what communicates with the mind (or the spirit), so I can see what he is saying to be somewhat true.That being said, I don't think it is true. I think that when we die, our "mind" (but I really mean spirit) is no longer limited by the human brain anymore, and so we will have a perfect knowledge of things we couldn't have before, and God judges us and places us in our appropriate place. And in my religion it isn't simply heaven or hell, in fact, what most people call hell, is actually part of heaven, just segregated from the rest. There are three degrees of glory in heaven, Celestial, where you will be with God, and Jesus...now I always mix these two up, but there is the telestial and terestial, and then the outer darkness, which is "hell" but different than most peoples. We believe than outer darkness is only for those who have a perfect knowledge, and still reject Christ, like a prophet, or Satan, so most people wont go to outer darkness.
If your faith tells you that, fine, but please just understand the futility of such a view from a logical perspective, or anything but an intensely-religious blind faith perspective. Because there's no rational reason to believe what you just wrote.
Anyway, the "mind" vs. "brain" debate is an interesting one, one best discussed by actual neuroscientists or philosophers of the mind. Religious concepts of a spirit are, to me, nonsensical, and everything we attribute to a soul in the cultural zeitgeist can easily be attributed to the processes of our brains.
You did say that you thought it was possible for the brain to be a conduit for the "mind" though. I'd be interested to hear why. Is it just something that seems to make sense to you, or have you heard anything else to lead you to this conclusion?
Heaven is something that we give a name to that we will never understand.
I believe that there is a verse that states something like, "Even in your mind a man cannot conceive what god has in store for those that love him." But that's the Biblical view.
Still - - - once you die, it still would be unimaginable. And everyone goes there. You go from where you came.
Originally posted by DigiWell, honestly it started with a short story I was working on, and then through conversation and observation I thought it actually might be possible.
If your faith tells you that, fine, but please just understand the futility of such a view from a logical perspective, or anything but an intensely-religious blind faith perspective. Because there's no rational reason to believe what you just wrote.Anyway, the "mind" vs. "brain" debate is an interesting one, one best discussed by actual neuroscientists or philosophers of the mind. Religious concepts of a spirit are, to me, nonsensical, and everything we attribute to a soul in the cultural zeitgeist can easily be attributed to the processes of our brains.
You did say that you thought it was possible for the brain to be a conduit for the "mind" though. I'd be interested to hear why. Is it just something that seems to make sense to you, or have you heard anything else to lead you to this conclusion?
Long story short, the short story was about a guy who realized the difference between his "mind" and brain, and used it to do amazing things. Then I was talking to my uncle about it, and he talked about something he had thought about for a while. That intelligence isn't just the storage and movement of information in the brain. Intelligence is an actual energy, that we haven't been able to "see" yet. Then there is the whole..what do they call them, mental tests? idk, pretty much you hold your arm out perpendicular to your body, and someone pushes down on it, you resist as hard as you can, and depending on your energy (or something *shrugs*) you can withstand the pressure, and hold it perpendicular, or not and your arm falls. Now, I have seen this test done where someone randomly would think incredibly positive thoughts toward the person, or really cruel thoughts about them. And every time, their arm falls when they think negative things, and stays strong when they think positive. Now this doesn't exactly prove anything for what I am thinking, and there are many possible explanations for it, but I believe that their thought did in fact effect their physical strength, and thus the mind (or brain, at this point there really is no distinguishing between them) has some sort of connection to someone else's body.
So, I just filled in the gaps with stuff I invented. But to me, it is entirely plausible. But like you said, I am not educated in such fields, so my input means very little. Just one topic I like to think about.
Originally posted by menokokoroWhat you're describing with the arm reminds me of the first item on a hypnotic susceptibility scale. It's a task most easily influenced by power of suggestion.
...That intelligence isn't just the storage and movement of information in the brain. Intelligence is an actual energy, that we haven't been able to "see" yet. Then there is the whole..what do they call them, mental tests? idk, pretty much you hold your arm out perpendicular to your body, and someone pushes down on it, you resist as hard as you can, and depending on your energy (or something *shrugs*) you can withstand the pressure, and hold it perpendicular, or not and your arm falls. Now, I have seen this test done where someone randomly would think incredibly positive thoughts toward the person, or really cruel thoughts about them. And every time, their arm falls when they think negative things, and stays strong when they think positive. Now this doesn't exactly prove anything for what I am thinking, and there are many possible explanations for it, but I believe that their thought did in fact effect their physical strength, and thus the mind (or brain, at this point there really is no distinguishing between them) has some sort of connection to someone else's body.
If intelligence was some 'actual energy' it would probably be electromagnetic. But 'energy', in its most basic sense, means the capacity to do work...which intelligence does (mental work, as it were). There's also what people commonly call 'chi', which tends to be regarded as some type of energy 'substance', when (IMO) it's essentially the mind and body functioning as a single, integrated unit, wherein much more 'capacity for work' can be generated than in our normal state, where mind and body are not only significantly out of synch, but often work in opposition (think of our normal state as a man on a horse, as opposed to the centaur, which would be the integrated state). Hypnosis can help generate this state, but it's certainly not the only way.
Originally posted by menokokoro
Well, honestly it started with a short story I was working on, and then through conversation and observation I thought it actually might be possible.Long story short, the short story was about a guy who realized the difference between his "mind" and brain, and used it to do amazing things. Then I was talking to my uncle about it, and he talked about something he had thought about for a while. That intelligence isn't just the storage and movement of information in the brain. Intelligence is an actual energy, that we haven't been able to "see" yet. Then there is the whole..what do they call them, mental tests? idk, pretty much you hold your arm out perpendicular to your body, and someone pushes down on it, you resist as hard as you can, and depending on your energy (or something *shrugs*) you can withstand the pressure, and hold it perpendicular, or not and your arm falls. Now, I have seen this test done where someone randomly would think incredibly positive thoughts toward the person, or really cruel thoughts about them. And every time, their arm falls when they think negative things, and stays strong when they think positive. Now this doesn't exactly prove anything for what I am thinking, and there are many possible explanations for it, but I believe that their thought did in fact effect their physical strength, and thus the mind (or brain, at this point there really is no distinguishing between them) has some sort of connection to someone else's body.
So, I just filled in the gaps with stuff I invented. But to me, it is entirely plausible. But like you said, I am not educated in such fields, so my input means very little. Just one topic I like to think about.
Oh dear. yeah, repeat that test numerous times under controlled and blind or double-blind conditions. You'll find it's a placebo affect. Peoples' expectations can and do affect outcomes in similar tests, but it's nothing supernatural.
Hucksters in the 80's (and I suppose even today to an extent) did the same with spoon-bending, and people flocked to watch the power of collective thought grant them enhanced strength. Most of the time it's harmless, but some of the time it's exploitive and deliberately misleading in order to swindle people out of their money.
Hell, have you seen those "natural frequency" bracelets on recent infomercials that are supposed to do the same? Different mask, same idea. And just as reprehensible for those that sell it, and unfortunate for those who believe and buy it.
Originally posted by TacDavey
I don't think chemical reactions can produce trustworthy ideas.There has to be something more than a lump of flesh guiding our thoughts and ideas.
There's a lot more than a lump of flesh. There's a blindingly complex series of interconnections and processes that inform our every action. Your intuition is right, even if your rationalization of the explanation isn't.
I like that you want to anthropomorphize chemical reactions though. I got a chuckle out of that one. Can't trust those cagey bastards!
Heaven SHOULD be..God lets you live the life you always wanted to live when you were alive. I didnt ask for this one, but ive done the best i can with what i had, as a reward for a lifetime of heart ache , stress ,misfortune and physical ailment, i think once this life is over God should born me again to the same parents and same birthday with all the knowledge id accumulated in the previous life..then a lottery win at age 22. Bliss!
Originally posted by Digi
There's a lot more than a lump of flesh. There's a blindingly complex series of interconnections and processes that inform our every action. Your intuition is right, even if your rationalization of the explanation isn't.I like that you want to anthropomorphize chemical reactions though. I got a chuckle out of that one. Can't trust those cagey bastards!
Perhaps simplifying it to chemical reactions isn't fully representative of it's complexity, but my point still stands. If you follow it down to it's most basic functions, there isn't any true logic guiding it. It's a series of electrical bursts and chemicals. Nothing that can produce a trustworthy idea.