Originally posted by Sirius77
No. When Myx couldn't stop ultimator from eating the 5th dimension, he called Dream, and Dream stopped him with a gesture. The endless are a different level of abstract. Dream stomps legion anywhere at any time.
Originally posted by MrMindAgreed. By definition Dream actually has the most influence on mortals through every day life. IIRC Abstracts like Dream not only represent their aspect but their opposite as well as it defines them and therefore falls into their spheres of influence. So while Dream controls the dream world his dream can also be reality. Honestly I'd put dream head and shoulders above any endless in a fight except maybe destiny as he'd probably look into the cosmic log to see if/when he could beat dream.
lol, and some people actually think legion has a chance.
Originally posted by Uriel005
Agreed. By definition Dream actually has the most influence on mortals through every day life. IIRC Abstracts like Dream not only represent their aspect but their opposite as well as it defines them and therefore falls into their spheres of influence. So while Dream controls the dream world his dream can also be reality. Honestly I'd put dream head and shoulders above any endless in a fight except maybe destiny as he'd probably look into the cosmic log to see if/when he could beat dream.
Depends on the Endless I think, Death is also present for every birth but at the same time something like Desire doesn't really have an exact opposite to influence, something that can be seen how it had no control over Joshua Norton as he was content.
Also I'm pretty sure it was said a number of times that Death and Destiny were > Dream, but he was > than the other 3.
can we pls use on panel feats and not inferred power.
a lot of what is being said about them is actually substantiated with actual evidence.
i dont mind or care if Legion loses but i want it rooted with actual evidence and not unsubstantiated personal opinion of what the character should be.
aside from that i am more or less willing to give it to Dream in the the dream/astral battle.
but in actual reality i want to see actual power level and feats.
i have only read a few sandman vertigo comics years ago so i am depending on you guys to educate me with facts and not out of context personal bias of the character
Originally posted by King Castle
can we pls use on panel feats and not inferred power.
a lot of what is being said about them is actually substantiated with actual evidence.i dont mind or care if Legion loses but i want it rooted with actual evidence and not unsubstantiated personal opinion of what the character should be.
aside from that i am more or less willing to give it to Dream in the the dream/astral battle.
but in actual reality i want to see actual power level and feats.
i have only read a few sandman vertigo comics years ago so i am depending on you guys to educate me with facts and not out of context personal bias of the character
Tbf if you're looking for combat feats and such the Endless don't have many because of the nature of Sandman.
But I mean, within his own realm Dream was able to warp reality and trap Azazel, one of most powerful demons of hell in a bottle with no effort, whilst at the same time he was inside Azazel's form, where Azazel was his most powerful.
Also if Daniel's feats are allowed (exact same power source and entity effectively) Dream was able to put Supes, Kyle and Wonder Woman to sleep with a gesture, and later took Starro into the Dreaming and trapped him with apparently no exertion.
Originally posted by Sirius77That version of Dream, along with the comic book he resided in, were Mxy's creations.
No. When Myx couldn't stop ultimator from eating the 5th dimension, he called Dream, and Dream stopped him with a gesture. The endless are a different level of abstract. They're really in a class of their own. Dream stomps legion anywhere at any time.
=/= the real Dream.
Originally posted by Sirius77If you recall, Mxy tricked Ultimator into hopping through several of his personal comics. Finally, when they hopped into Mxy's aptly named "Zzzandman" comic book, Ultimator was literally bored to an eternal sleep by the manifestation of Dream found in said comic (dubbed "Mopius".)
Oh, seriously? I thought that was just the 5th dimensional perception of dream. I guess that probably makes more sense though.Hmm, so would that mean that myx is over dream?
As for the second part of your question: Mxy would absolutely have control over Dream -- but the instance I mentioned above isn't why I am of that opinion (remember, Mxy's version of Dream =/= to the real Dream.) The reason I think/know such is because Mxy is pretty much the highest-end reality warper out there. He could make the concept Dream embodies non-existent with a snap.
Originally posted by Galan007
If you recall, Mxy tricked Ultimator into hopping through several of his personal comics. Finally, when they hopped into Mxy's aptly named "Zzzandman" comic book, Ultimator was literally bored to an eternal sleep by the manifestation of Dream found in said comic (dubbed "Mopius".)As for the second part of your question: Mxy would absolutely have control over Dream -- but the instance I mentioned above isn't why I am of that opinion (remember, Mxy's version of Dream =/= to the real Dream.) The reason I think/know such is because Mxy is pretty much the highest-end reality warper out there. He could make the concept Dream embodies non-existent with a snap.
Originally posted by Galan007
I took it as Morphius verbally owning Lucifer, and being too embarrassed (for lack of a better word) to do anything about it.
I think its also possible that Lucifer realized that Dream was having a Crowning Moment of Awesome and was afraid to intervene. 😛
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Why is a mutant taking on an abstract?
Because this mutant supposedly destroyed and recreated Eternity, Mistress Death, Infinity, Galactus, Lord Chaos, Mistress Love, etc.
Originally posted by Sirius77
No. When Myx couldn't stop ultimator from eating the 5th dimension, he called Dream, and Dream stopped him with a gesture. The endless are a different level of abstract. They're really in a class of their own. Dream stomps legion anywhere at any time.
All 'Dream' did was tell a boring story that sent the already tired Ultimator to sleep. There was no gesturing or stomping anywhere. And the Dream that appeared in that story wasn't really Morpheus, he was just a comic book character.
http://img141.imageshack.us/i/lier1.jpg/
http://img146.imageshack.us/i/lier2.jpg/
I also don't believe that the Endless are more powerful than Marvel's abstracts, but that's neither here nor there.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfishwhat feats does Azazel have on panel and not just inferred power or using Lucifer and transferring his feats to Azazel?
Tbf if you're looking for combat feats and such the Endless don't have many because of the nature of Sandman.But I mean, within his own realm Dream was able to warp reality and trap Azazel, one of most powerful demons of hell in a bottle with no effort, whilst at the same time he was inside Azazel's form, where Azazel was his most powerful.
Also if Daniel's feats are allowed (exact same power source and entity effectively) Dream was able to put Supes, Kyle and Wonder Woman to sleep with a gesture, and later took Starro into the Dreaming and trapped him with apparently no exertion.
Originally posted by King Castle
what feats does Azazel have on panel and not just inferred power or using Lucifer and transferring his feats to Azazel?
I think the benchmark we'd use though for determining demonic power would be Etrigan. Azazel was definitely above the likes of Etrigan for what that's worth.
