Originally posted by Omega Vision
Except it is.Look, I like DS a lot more than I like Zoom, but there's no point in trying to deny Zoom his powerset to give DS the nod here.
It's too easy to say Zoom trounces Thanos but then turn around and say Darkseid wins because you like him more.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Awesome avatar and sig man.http://img638.imageshack.us/f/zoom2n.jpg/
You mean this?
lol thanks...if you check my sig page i have plenty more flash sigs....my most recent was Prof Zoom racing with barry.....it was simple but cool looking.
and yes that no doubtingly where i read it....i just couldn't remember who said it. but i also remember that in the Rouge Wars arc zoom and prof zoom wanted to use the cosmic treadmill so the tied jay up to it.
Hunters over all plan was to make wally live the moment where he used his "finger snap" to kill wallys children over and over again but he needed the cosmic treadmill to go back in time and since he could not he had jay tied to the treadmill. barry and wally fought side by side as flash and flash vs zoom and zoom.....wally then alters the past by running as fast and hard as he can to catch up with zoom(hunter) and then pushes zoom in front of his own attack and saving linda and there children.
EDIT: i can provide scans of this at someones request.
I finally remember this, the 410 AD incident is in "flash fastest man alive". which is purely bad writing. and it's not hudlin who wrote it, it's Marc Guggenheim.
zoom tried to use treadmill travel back in time which he failed. why he needs the treadmill? because he himself can't
zoom can't go to future and past because in every single other comics zoom appeared in he hasn't done that, it's not in his powerset, zoom only got one power! manipulate time in his own time frame.
in rogue's revenge, zoom said:" like standing in the rolling ball you can control it, you can move as fast or as slow as you want to." zoom can stretch and squeeze his own timeline to make himself super fast or super slow. but he can never jump back or forth on the timeline. no matter how fast or how slow he moves he will always be in the "present". that's kinda his thing that separate him from professor zoom.
now let's try a different approach. why would zoom want flash to travel back time when he can do it himself? why didn't he go back in time and stop his father from killing his mother? he doesn't give a shit about damage the time stream like flash do. if he can do it he already will do it.
Guggenheim doesn't understand zoom's or any flash villains' power, zoom can go intangible but not by vibrating matters like flash did. yet he shown zoom and flash vibrating through each other.
the fact that rogues doesn't kill people and do drugs yet he completely ignored.
seriously johns himself let jay explained zoom's power in flash 200. jay said he can't go backwards.
that's all the proof we need, "flash the fastest man alive " shouldn't be count as evidence
Originally posted by MrMind
I finally remember this, the 410 AD incident is in "flash fastest man alive". which is purely bad writing. and it's not hudlin who wrote it, it's Marc Guggenheim.
zoom tried to use treadmill travel back in time which he failed. why he needs the treadmill? because he himself can't
zoom can't go to future and past because in every single other comics zoom appeared in he hasn't done that, it's not in his powerset, zoom only got one power! manipulate time in his own time frame.
in rogue's revenge, zoom said:" like standing in the rolling ball you can control it, you can move as fast or as slow as you want to." zoom can stretch and squeeze his own timeline to make himself super fast or super slow. but he can never jump back or forth on the timeline. no matter how fast or how slow he moves he will always be in the "present". that's kinda his thing that separate him from professor zoom.
now let's try a different approach. why would zoom want flash to travel back time when he can do it himself? why didn't he go back in time and stop his father from killing his mother? he doesn't give a shit about damage the time stream like flash do. if he can do it he already will do it.
Guggenheim doesn't understand zoom's or any flash villains' power, zoom can go intangible but not by vibrating matters like flash did. yet he shown zoom and flash vibrating through each other.
the fact that rogues doesn't kill people and do drugs yet he completely ignored.
seriously johns himself let jay explained zoom's power in flash 200. jay said he can't go backwards.
that's all the proof we need, "flash the fastest man alive " shouldn't be count as evidence
exactly....Prof zoom however is fast and can go back in time......and as you said about the rouges yes that's also right one the money because when the new mirror master was on drugs Cpt Cold made it very clear that's not how the rogues act.....from Galans scans i was under the impression that Zoom had acquired some new upgrades.
Originally posted by MrMind
that scans from book is more than 3 years ago, after that I haven't seen zoom go back in time once. and I'm pretty sure I've read every issue with zoom in it.
i have every issue from 1987 to 2006 and that's(excluding the current flash because i have them also) probably why i was un-aware of this book....
oh and i have the Paper back of bart becoming flash...Lighting in a bottle....but that really is of no relevance here lol
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
i find your theory very interesting. Has darkside ever manipulated the time around a person who already has control over the time around him/her self ever before?
Not too many beings can warp time to any level. He has shown enough power to prevent people that can jump through time from interfering with some of his time related feats, so that's something. I can recall at least two incidences where time jumpers couldn't stop or prevent his manipulation of time.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I do agree with either stomping Zoom or Zoom stomping the charrie he's faced against. There doesn't seem to be any room for middle ground with him on forums.
Very true, but that's mostly because he's a one trick pony that would be vulnerable to any powerful successful attack on his person.
We've seen street levelers and low meta guys show the power to kill him outright. He's far more vulnerable than the Flash imo, who has the speed force to protect his body from the trauma his body would otherwise be subjected to.
Originally posted by AllanklesWe've also seen him tank punches from Superman, as well as punches from Flash traveling near/at/beyond the speed of light. Several times.
We've seen street levelers and low meta guys show the power to kill him outright. He's far more vulnerable than the Flash imo, who has the speed force to protect his body from the trauma his body would otherwise be subjected to.
Don't undersell the character just to try and make DS look better. Zoom can still blitz the hell out of Darky WELL before he could attempt a counter.
Originally posted by Galan007And if that's the case you have to point out DS' low points.
We've also seen him tank punches from Superman, as well as punches from Flash traveling near/at/beyond the speed of light. Several times.Don't undersell the character just to try and make DS look better. Zoom can still blitz the hell out of Darky WELL before he could attempt a counter.
Just noticed this.
Originally posted by MrMindYou realize Zoom's powers are derived from the cosmic treadmill, right? So if he's imbued with those energies, it's perfectly logical to assume that he could gain the ability to time travel... With enough practice.
I finally remember this, the 410 AD incident is in "flash fastest man alive". which is purely bad writing. and it's not hudlin who wrote it, it's Marc Guggenheim.
zoom tried to use treadmill travel back in time which he failed. why he needs the treadmill? because he himself can't
Originally posted by MrMindAh, so you're essentially throwing out one feat you don't agree with, and replacing it with a feat you do agree with? I'm sure you understand why I find that line of logic a bit... Faulty.
seriously johns himself let jay explained zoom's power in flash 200. jay said he can't go backwards.
that's all the proof we need, "flash the fastest man alive " shouldn't be count as evidence
Imo, it IS in Zoom's scope of power to time travel -- it's just not 'in character' for him to do so.
Originally posted by Galan007
Just noticed this.You realize Zoom's powers are derived from the cosmic treadmill, right? So if he's imbued with those energies, it's perfectly logical to assume that he could gain the ability to time travel... With enough practice.
Ah, so you're essentially throwing out one feat you don't agree with, and replacing it with a feat you do agree with? I'm sure you understand why I find that line of logic a bit... Faulty.
Imo, it IS in Zoom's scope of power to time travel -- it's just not 'in character' for him to do so.
Theses no such thing as practice when he's STUCK ON A WHEEl. See he can practice all he wants its no in his power sets. Other guys aren't like every one else who can actually get faster can practice. Zoom just literally can't unless your suggesting he breaks out of what is stated and gains new powers?
Originally posted by Galan007
We've also seen him tank punches from Superman, as well as punches from Flash traveling near/at/beyond the speed of light. Several times.Don't undersell the character just to try and make DS look better. Zoom can still blitz the hell out of Darky WELL before he could attempt a counter.
Galan, I agree that Zoom beats Post-crisis Darkseid, and that Zoom is more than high herald; but this non-sense about him simply blitzing everyone who can't manipulate time needs to stop. Unless Zoom's most impressive fights have been left out of the respect thread, the feats do not exist to support this notion, and arguing that his speed and time manipulation give him an automatic win, even though we've never seen him insta-kill a trans-level character, is a lot like the argument made by some Apocalypse fans that he can simply grow into a giant adamantium sky-scraper. Zoom is powerful, and he's winning this, but let's not get carried away and give him credit for things he's never done before.
Originally posted by Simbon
Galan, I agree that Zoom beats Post-crisis Darkseid, and that Zoom is more than high herald; but this non-sense about him simply blitzing everyone who can't manipulate time needs to stop. Unless Zoom's most impressive fights have been left out of the respect thread, the feats do not exist to support this notion, and arguing that his speed and time manipulation give him an automatic win, even though we've never seen him insta-kill a trans-level character, is a lot like the argument made by some Apocalypse fans that he can simply grow into a giant adamantium sky-scraper. Zoom is powerful, and he's winning this, but let's not get carried away and give him credit for things he's never done before.
I would call him over herald level. He's main thing is speed and time. That can be got past by heralds. Some like Silver Surfer or air walker can attack him from a distance easily taking out his feet or legs depending on how they feel. I mean he can take on a herald perhaps but so can Hulk, an while Zoom would rape Hulk he isn't herald level. Yeah in fights like these a character can get and automatic win really if possible, not like Superman who people think if he bltiz some one he wins.
Originally posted by SimbonFlash is like this too on the forum based on forum rules.
Galan, I agree that Zoom beats Post-crisis Darkseid, and that Zoom is more than high herald; but this non-sense about him simply blitzing everyone who can't manipulate time needs to stop. Unless Zoom's most impressive fights have been left out of the respect thread, the feats do not exist to support this notion, and arguing that his speed and time manipulation give him an automatic win, even though we've never seen him insta-kill a trans-level character, is a lot like the argument made by some Apocalypse fans that he can simply grow into a giant adamantium sky-scraper. Zoom is powerful, and he's winning this, but let's not get carried away and give him credit for things he's never done before.
