Naruto(family fued) fight

I don't think Itachi is >Minato.

Minato is a better match against Madara than Itachi. Itachi did not really fear Jiraiya, who Itachi could probably beat, Itachi was a good guy and it wouldn't be smart to fight Jiraiya, another good guy, to the death.

Since when was speed the best strength of Itachi's? His genjutsu is what is most deadly about him. Minato, at present, has never shown any kind of genjutsu ability. Though he likely has one of course. Not that it's easy to get Minato in a genjutsu to begin with probably.

Itachi has never really been shown to be taijutsu savvy. His fights certainly point to him being a long distance fighter. The only reason Minato could tag Bee so easily was because A really is a one trick pony and Bee had to save him. Itachi is likely not to be put in the same position.

The guy who was saying that Sasuke is a better character than Naruto fails so hard it makes dividing by zero look quaint.

Pre-Shippuden Naruto is a legitimate badass and one of the best characters in the series easily. Sasuke has always been awful since the chunin exams. Even now Naruto isn't on the same planet of fail Sasuke is. My god does Sasuke suck right now.

And this fight may well be one of the closest and most ambiguous I've ever seen. Though I will point out that Itachi's eye powers/genjutsu is so powerful that he was somehow able to plant an amaratsu in Sasuke that would go off on sight of Madara. Thats just fvcking crazy and no-one has done anything like it in the series to my knowledge.

Where did the massive Sasuke hate come from? Random to say the least.

I actually like Sasuke's character more than Naruto's.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

Itachi has never really been shown to be taijutsu savvy. His fights certainly point to him being a long distance fighter. The only reason Minato could tag Bee so easily was because A really is a one trick pony and Bee had to save him. Itachi is likely not to be put in the same position.

He beat up Sasuke pretty bad.....if that counts for anything. A though he could match Minato's reaction and failed trying, it's not his or Bee's fault that Minato's the god of reflexes. I will say that two Susanoos might be too much for him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The guy who was saying that Sasuke is a better character than Naruto fails so hard it makes dividing by zero look quaint.

Pre-Shippuden Naruto is a legitimate badass and one of the best characters in the series easily. Sasuke has always been awful since the chunin exams. Even now Naruto isn't on the same planet of fail Sasuke is. My god does Sasuke suck right now.

The closest thing Naruto's ever gotten to badass was his arrival in fron of Pein during the invasion arc. Hebi Sasuke wasn't all that bad actually, he legitimately beat an S class nin.

This fight is pretty much Minato vs two Uchiha. Naruto's new and unexplained upgrade in Kyuubi usage may make his stronger than ever but his genjutsu defense is still lacking considerably.

But if they moved fast enough wouldn't it render genjutsu somewhat useless?

Originally posted by Darth Angel
I still don't understand how can you think that Itachi>Minato.

Let's see: Minato beat Madara, someone Itachi couldn't kill and who was Madara's inferior.
Itachi feared Jiraya and had to run for his life the only time he fought him while having Kisame to backing him up, someone who thought that Minato was stronger then himself.

Besides, Itachi doesn't even have that much chakra, and one of his main strenghts, his speed, means nothing against the fastest character in Naruto universe. Sure, Itachi can be a great challenge for Minato, but I can't see him as the strongest one.
Besides, seeing how Susano is a last resource for Itachi and he would engage his opponents in taijutsu, even if Minato doesn't kill him during the taijutsu battle (I just can't see anyone good enough to fight him in a taijutsu fight), he would end up tagged with Hirashin anyway. And then even Susano wouldn't help him.

The second Minato looks at Itachi, Minato's out.

Yes, I can wank my favoured character too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The guy who was saying that Sasuke is a better character than Naruto fails so hard it makes dividing by zero look quaint.

Pre-Shippuden Naruto is a legitimate badass and one of the best characters in the series easily. Sasuke has always been awful since the chunin exams. Even now Naruto isn't on the same planet of fail Sasuke is. My god does Sasuke suck right now.

And this fight may well be one of the closest and most ambiguous I've ever seen. Though I will point out that Itachi's eye powers/genjutsu is so powerful that he was somehow able to plant an amaratsu in Sasuke that would go off on sight of Madara. Thats just fvcking crazy and no-one has done anything like it in the series to my knowledge.

Naruto has never been a badass until the last chapter. Saying that he's a badass in Part 1 is what makes dividing by zero look quaint in comparison to the failure of that statement.

He was never an interesting character, at least not until he talked to Nagato, and to his mother.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
The second Minato looks at Itachi, Minato's out.

Yes, I can wank my favoured character too.

Of course, Minato is not likely to look directly at the Uchiha eyes and is likely not as awful as his son at genjutsu. That and he can always use summons to break it for him. Tsukuyomi is the exception obviously but Itachi wouldn't likely start with that.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Where did the massive Sasuke hate come from? Random to say the least.

I actually like Sasuke's character more than Naruto's.

Well that is the point: Sasuke has literally snapped. And said snapping had some pretty good justification behind it. He is not sane so of course his actions seem childish and stupid.

I agree and that's my interpretation as well. But that doesn't make it any less annoying to read. Reading Sasuke's dialogue, I might as well just go outside and listen to some homeless person ramble.

Well, Sasuke and said homeless person have legitimate reasons to ramble.

But we don't read this manga to listen to homeless people ramble.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
The closest thing Naruto's ever gotten to badass was his arrival in fron of Pein during the invasion arc. Hebi Sasuke wasn't all that bad actually, he legitimately beat an S class nin.

Sorry I can't hear you over the awesomeness of the Gaara fight. Or the Sasuke fight. Hell the Neji fight is badass. Part one Naruto was badass.

Sasukes just legitimately crazy.

Naruto has never been a badass until the last chapter. Saying that he's a badass in Part 1 is what makes dividing by zero look quaint in comparison to the failure of that statement.

He was never an interesting character, at least not until he talked to Nagato, and to his mother.

Part 1 Naruto was damn cool. He was a guy who never gave up and always scraped through by being a badass.

Disagree. I always thought his loneliness and outcast status made him a very interesting character. His scene with Gaara was one of the best in the entire series.

Where did the massive Sasuke hate come from? Random to say the least.

I actually like Sasuke's character more than Naruto's.

The fact that he's an axe crazy lunatic who only wins his fights because the plot demands it (like when, near chakra exhaustion, he was able to summon and bind a building sized snake before an explosion 5 feet away could hit him.), he steals the manga from the main charcter and basically he has zero good qualities whatsoever. He hasn't since after Naruto started getting powerful in the Chunin exams. He's a jealous, crazy *******. And he was my favourite character before the chunin arc!

I'm more surprised at the Naruto hate.

hater gon hate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But we don't read this manga to listen to homeless people ramble.

Of course. We read it to watch ninja's with the most emotional baggage in the world fight. Sasuke just happens to be the one with the most...Probably.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sorry I can't hear you over the awesomeness of the Gaara fight. Or the Sasuke fight. Hell the Neji fight is badass. Part one Naruto was badass.

Sasukes just legitimately crazy.

I will actually agree to this. Naruto in part 1 is much much more awesome to Naruto in part 2. His speech at the end of the Gaara fight actually made me a little teary eyed.

A lot of characters are legitimately crazy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The fact that he's an axe crazy lunatic who only wins his fights because the plot demands it (like when, near chakra exhaustion, he was able to summon and bind a building sized snake before an explosion 5 feet away could hit him.), he steals the manga from the main charcter and basically he has zero good qualities whatsoever. He hasn't since after Naruto started getting powerful in the Chunin exams. He's a jealous, crazy *******. And he was my favourite character before the chunin arc!

I'm more surprised at the Naruto hate.

hater gon hate.

Sasuke has more legitimate wins under his belt than Naruto actually. Mook fighting not withstanding of course. I wouldn't call it stealing the manga considering how important the character of Sasuke is to the main character. He is supposed to be the foil and junk. And I wouldn't say he has no good qualities, considering he still has bar none the funniest line in the entire series. That and it depends very much on what one considers good qualities. His reaction to events and overall disposition are great qualities for a fallen hero. Though I am confused why he lost good qualities in the Chunin arc? That was when Sasuke was still a more or less heroic character who in fact was the leader of team 7 when Kakashi wasn't around.

It's not that I hate Naruto. Just his backstory never feels fleshed out enough for me to care about it. His Hero complex is when his character became most interesting. A desire to protect everything is something he has had for quite a while.

Of course. We read it to watch ninja's with the most emotional baggage in the world fight. Sasuke just happens to be the one with the most...Probably.

Dude, that isn't why I watch it.

A lot of characters are legitimately crazy.

Not like Sasuke. Even Gaara wasn't this bad.

And I wouldn't say he has no good qualities, considering he still has bar none the funniest line in the entire series.

Yeah, I lol'd, but thats the only likable thing he's done in about 400 chapters. Other than that he's stupid, crazy and a massive cock.

That and it depends very much on what one considers good qualities. His reaction to events and overall disposition are great qualities for a fallen hero.

They're really not. Sasuke has gone massively downhill since the Itachi stuff. Declaring war on Konoha? Attacking the Kage Summit? Trying to kill Karin? Those aren't logical progression in his charcter. he jumped right off the slippery slope with no motivation at all. He's just insane at this point.

Though I am confused why he lost good qualities in the Chunin arc? That was when Sasuke was still a more or less heroic character who in fact was the leader of team 7 when Kakashi wasn't around.

Exactly. Personally the thing I hate the most about Sasuke is that this guy and this guy are the same person. As I said, I used to really like Sasuke, that first guy is interesting and likable, someone who clearly cares about his friends despite his emotional baggage and is conflicted over his past. But lately Kishi has turned him into a character who has somehow simultaneously become the craziest pyschopath in the manga and the most boring. Everything he does is baffling to me and at the same time, I don't give a shit. Its wierd.

It's not that I hate Naruto. Just his backstory never feels fleshed out enough for me to care about it. His Hero complex is when his character became most interesting. A desire to protect everything is something he has had for quite a while.

I'm re-readig the chunin ema arc right now and I'm just not seeing it. Naruto is a great character there, and his backstry is really well explored through his interactions with Neji, Gaara, Hinata etc.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dude, that isn't why I watch it.

But that's what it is so I mean, what else is there?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not like Sasuke. Even Gaara wasn't this bad.

Indeed. Gaara was much worse. He killed people purely because it gave him an erection. Sasuke has only just started that and even now he is picky on who he wants to kill(Konoha seems to be his main target and he does not seem to give a shit about anyone else). Gaara would kill freaking anyone.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I lol'd, but thats the only likable thing he's done in about 400 chapters. Other than that he's stupid, crazy and a massive cock.

So was Pain. And other villains.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They're really not. Sasuke has gone massively downhill since the Itachi stuff. Declaring war on Konoha? Attacking the Kage Summit? Trying to kill Karin? Those aren't logical progression in his charcter. he jumped right off the slippery slope with no motivation at all. He's just insane at this point.

Why would you look for logic in someone who has literally gone insane for good reason? Sasuke's character at present has no purpose beyond killing people. His character really has no where to go at present. But that is the point. His character has really only one thing left: Being saved by Naruto. Which is the ultimate challenge of our protagonist. If he weren't off his rocker, if he could be reasoned with, if he had reasonable goals, he wouldn't be the ultimate challenge for Naruto.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Exactly. Personally the thing I hate the most about Sasuke is that this guy and this guy are the same person. As I said, I used to really like Sasuke, that first guy is interesting and likable, someone who clearly cares about his friends despite his emotional baggage and is conflicted over his past. But lately Kishi has turned him into a character who is somehow simultaneously become the craziest pyschopath in the manga and the most boring.

Well that is the thing about character arcs: They usually involve change. The same can be said for Naruto, Sakura, Gaara, etc. Sasuke just happens to be a negative example. Considering he is an example of the fallen hero, this makes perfect sense. And he really isn't that boring to me. He is sporting the funniest lines in the series and actually goes as far as to have his own evil laugh. It's awesome.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm re-readig the chunin ema arc right now and I'm just not seeing it. Naruto is a great character there, and his backstry is really well explored through his interactions with Neji, Gaara, Hinata etc.

Not...really. I can not honestly remember many flashbacks to Naruto's childhood that don't involve Sasuke or a pbunch of people standing behind him while he is looking sad. Gaara actually had memorable examples in his backstory, like retrieving the kids ball and being called a monster when trying to do something nice.

In this regard though, the anime shines. Naruto's backstory is much more heartbreaking in the fillers than in the manga.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Of course. We read it to watch ninja's with the most emotional baggage in the world fight. Sasuke just happens to be the one with the most...Probably.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Sorry I can't hear you over the awesomeness of the Gaara fight. Or the Sasuke fight. Hell the Neji fight is badass. Part one Naruto was badass.

Sasukes just legitimately crazy.

I almost forgot about Naruto and Gaara's fight. That actually was Naruto's shining momment for Part 1 and stayed that way for a good portion of Part 2. Same with the Neji fight

Naruto was never a badass though...not even now with his unexplained Kyuubi Mastery.

Sasuke's only crazy because of Madara. Had he still be oblivious to the truth he'd be restoring his clan right now 😄

He's only crazy because of Madara? No... its his fault that he fell for it. He's supposed to be doing everything on Itachi's behalf; i'd take the fact that Itachi programmed him to kill Madara as pretty strong evidence that he should be staying away from him and in no way following his orders.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I like the fights, and I like the characters who keep their baggage to a minimum. Naruto and Sasuke pour on the pathos, which might be OK if the writing weren't so shitty. I can't empathize with Sasuke because I can't see myself making any of the decisions he made. I can't see anyone with a brain making any of the decisions he made.

Everyone has baggage. Even if it's just a little. Those without it are either really lame or Minato. But yeah, entertaining fights. And of course you can't see why someone would make the decisions Sasuke is making. You are, as far as I know, sane.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He's only crazy because of Madara? No... its his fault that he fell for it. He's supposed to be doing everything on Itachi's behalf; i'd take the fact that Itachi programmed him to kill Madara as pretty strong evidence that he should be staying away from him and in no way following his orders.

Except that it is Madara's fault. Sasuke is still responsible for his own actions of course but Madara is the one who pushed him into insanity.

I agree, everyone has a little baggage. Its the people with endless, whining baggage that I don't like. That's like saying I should like the KKK because everyone is a little racist.

How did Madara push him into insanity? He just told him a totally true fact. He's not the one who said "you should destroy Konoha", Sasuke completely came up with that part on his own.

If Sasuke is responsible for his own actions, that means by the very definition that it is his fault. Responsibility = owning up to your own actions. Nobody forced Sasuke to decide to destroy Konoha, in fact Madara even went out of his way to point out that that is NOT what Itachi would have wanted.