Captain Marver/Black Adam vs Superman/Wonder Woman

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I agree or at least understand where you're coming from with everything you're saying thus far, Rage.

QFT. 👆

Diana's always going to have a place in DC as she should; she's a mainstay. But phuck DC not giving Marvel the respect he deserves. The guy's been around since the damn forties and is an icon in the industry. Look at all the characters that are inspired or otherwise take concepts of him and use it for their own. The excuse that Captain Marvel can't do well in DC as it "takes away from/threatens Superman" is utter bullshit. I can't remember the last time Superman's titles have been some of DC's best selling ongoings or even that great to begin with.

Cool. 👆

It pisses me off. There's obviously a market for the character. Thor being in the Top 10 or 20 every time for the last 5 years alone should be enough reason for them to give him a shot. Like I said, no offense to Wonder Woman, but some of the best creators have been placed on her title (Rucka's being the one I most enjoyed) but her book has usually been bland or mediocre. And every time it reaches a point where other books would be canceled, they place a new creative team, increasing the sales for a while.

When I was a kid, I honestly use to think DC published Diana's comic as a tax deductible or something. Lol.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Cool. 👆

It pisses me off. There's obviously a market for the character. Thor being in the Top 10 or 20 every time for the last 5 years alone should be enough reason for them to give him a shot. Like I said, no offense to Wonder Woman, but some of the best creators have been placed on her title (Rucka's being the one I most enjoyed) but her book has usually been bland or mediocre. And every time it reaches a point where other books would be canceled, they place a new creative team, increasing the sales for a while.

When I was a kid, I honestly use to think DC published Diana's comic as a tax deductible or something. Lol.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. The phucked up thing is that before we got Trials of Shazam, Alex Ross and Geoff Johns were apparently going to collab and do a Captain Marvel/Shazam ongoing. Considering this was around when GL was starting to explode and Johns was getting more hype - whether it's deserved or not; your mileage may vary - it was obvious that that would have sold like crazy. But Trials of Shazam got pushed instead. I think DC's got this paranoia that if Captain Marvel succeeds or does well it either A.) takes away from Superman...somehow or B.) has to have Superman attached to it to milk off of the rivalry/history of the two characters. DC even has a Shazam message board on their official site with tons of posters clamoring for an ongoing and have for years only to get crappy side stories and Freddy-Shazam bullshit.

I hope Freddy being depowered will lead to Billy getting the Power of Shazam back and beating the shit out of Osiris or something.

team 1

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Team 2. Clark and Diana have a better rapport than Teth and Billy and a greater sense of teamwork. The lasso can also depower the Marvels via asking the name of the Wizard.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, it's ridiculous. The phucked up thing is that before we got Trials of Shazam, Alex Ross and Geoff Johns were apparently going to collab and do a Captain Marvel/Shazam ongoing. Considering this was around when GL was starting to explode and Johns was getting more hype - whether it's deserved or not; your mileage may vary - it was obvious that that would have sold like crazy. But Trials of Shazam got pushed instead. I think DC's got this paranoia that if Captain Marvel succeeds or does well it either A.) takes away from Superman...somehow or B.) has to have Superman attached to it to milk off of the rivalry/history of the two characters. DC even has a Shazam message board on their official site with tons of posters clamoring for an ongoing and have for years only to get crappy side stories and Freddy-Shazam bullshit.

I hope Freddy being depowered will lead to Billy getting the Power of Shazam back and beating the shit out of Osiris or something.

in the recent letters pages, DC has stated that something is on the way re: the marvel family. it could be true, as unlikely as that might be...

The worst thing is I think prior to the recent revamp, the Marvel family was in a *good place*. JSA mainstay, pretty popular, etc..

But they felt they couldn't just, y'know, use him like that, and instead had to do a shake-up which I guess they thought would make him even bigger somehow?

Wonder Woman's book has been schizophrenic in how it's treated, and suffered from some bad luck (mega-hyped relaunch has the author flake out while delivering a mediocre story that retreads old ground), but the Marvels seem like they were punished for doing well. And Black Mary? Ugh, that's one of the few character treatments that can claim to be worse than Amazon's Attacks (So, here's the deal: MARY MARVEL choses to be evil. Twice. What the heck DC??).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, no offense to Wonder Woman, but some of the best creators have been placed on her title (Rucka's being the one I most enjoyed) but her book has usually been bland or mediocre. And every time it reaches a point where other books would be canceled, they place a new creative team, increasing the sales for a while.

When I was a kid, I honestly use to think DC published Diana's comic as a tax deductible or something. Lol.

Three things work in her favor: They really are required to publish WW or risk losing the rights, so they'll always give her a revamp before things get too bad. License-wise she's worth far more than most DC heroes (her DVD not only got made but sold well, for example). Better outside comic name recognition, even if the books don't sell great. Finally, even when it's not doing too well it tends to stay mid-tier of books. I.e. even at the tale end of Gail's run (which while critically popular and really good, didn't do well in sales and is a low point in recent years. Ironically, due to hype from the relaunch and big name authors, the crappy runs sold quite highly. And Rucka's run only got up high near the very end and was mostly pretty low itself!), it beat out Teen Titans, Incredible Hercules, Guardians of the Galaxy, Outsiders, etc..

Cap is doing fine in the animated side of things though. He's probably had more guest appearances on Batman the Brave and Bold then anyone else I can think of. Return of Black Adam was also a good showcase for Billy, even if it was only 30 minutes long. He's also going to be a frequent guest character in Young Justice.

I have faith that DC has just been using the latter to increase the awareness the character outside of actual comic readers--a broader audience basically, and then bring him back to the fold gradually within the mainstream DCU.

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Superman is Fast. Faster than everyone here. WW is second fastest here. Zeus's lightning powers and depowers the Lightning twins. WW has Zeus's lightning. Game over.

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Originally posted by ymebada
Superman is Fast. Faster than everyone here. WW is second fastest here. Zeus's lightning powers and depowers the Lightning twins. WW has Zeus's lightning. Game over.

Her bracers wouldn't depower either of them if that's what you mean.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Her bracers wouldn't depower either of them if that's what you mean.

Originally posted by ymebada
Why wouldn' they? The lightning from them is Zeus's lightning. The very same that causes CM and BA to transform when it hits them. It is the trigger.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Which comic has that happened in to back up your claim ?

Originally posted by ymebada
I'm sorry. I thought you were well versed about WW. You seemed to down her so much in the other thread that I figured you knew all of her powers. Zeus gave WW his lightning powers.

It wouldn't depower them as:

A.) The bracers are made from Zeus' aegis, yes, and while connected to Zeus himself, haven't shown anything remotely close to being able to forcibly transform Captain Marvel back to Billy Batson. We have no way of quantifying just how much of Zeus' lightning comes from them and whether or not it would be able to reverse the Power of Shazam spell as a whole.

B.) Zeus has nothing to do with Black Adam and the source of his powers at all. His lightning is from the Power of Aton.

The Marvel lightning I prefer calling 'Shazam' lightning. Sure, Zeus's lightning is the key component, but it carries the entirety of the enchantment.

The Aegis Lightning, or Zeus himself, wouldn't have the whole thing in short, so it's just a zap and not a depowering thing.

Clark and Diana stomp!! This is coming from a biased Captain Marvel fan. 😛 ... Team two has the edge in strength, versatility, speed, and agility. As Q99 and Jake have mentioned, the lasso can revert CA and BA back into Teth and Billy. Also, Diana and Kal-l, are better team players and have had better showings then either opponent.

Didn't they retcon the marvel/black adam family powers to coming from a different set of greek gods, separate from the pantheon? Or is Trials of Shazam retconned out?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Didn't they retcon the marvel/black adam family powers to coming from a different set of greek gods, separate from the pantheon? Or is Trials of Shazam retconned out?

Trials of Shazam is an absolute mess as far as I'm concerned.

I know Black Adam's power still comes from the Egyptian pantheon, and Billy's came from the Greek/Roman pantheon, but Freddy as Shazam had his powers come from the Lords of Magic, who simply shared the titles of the gods/mythical figures they were named after.