Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade VS Kit Fisto,Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar

Started by ares8342 pages

Originally posted by NowYouRemember
Clone still had Luke beat. And Mara saved his butt.

And clearly she could not do it on his own.

Not by much.

Doesn't matter.

Hm, and the cutscene in the game has Kyle striking him down
Either way, It'd tickle me to see an excerpt from the novel, explaining your claim..

long quote...

The center was hollow. Dirt fell away from the edge and avalanched into the depression below. Jan arrived at Kyle's side, looked into the mound, and was amazed by what she saw - Jerec, quivering with the power that coursed through his body, light spilling from empty eye sockets. His voice came from everywhere at once.

"Yes! Join me! Share the power!"

Kyle moved forward; Jan grabbed for his arm and missed. The Jedi jumped, fell through the air, and absorbed the impact with his legs. His lightsaber sizzled as he turned it on.

"Yessss," the chorus chanted, "free us that we might merge with the Force!"

Jerec chose to ignore the lightsaber and the spirit voices. He spoke without turning.

"Your efforts are misguided. Can you hear them? Whining and sniveling? Is that what you seek to become? Another voice in a chorus of weakness?"

Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion. Kyle was propelled up and out of the chamber and onto the Valley floor. The impact knocked the air from his lungs.

He was lying there, trying to breathe, when an icy wind swept through the Valley. It circled slowly at first, as if gathering energy, before steadily picking up speed. Dust and other bits of debris were vacuumed up and whirled about. Voices wailed as mist billowed and the temperature continued to drop.

Kyle made it to one knee as Jerec levitated up and out of the mound. Voices moaned as large chunks of the inner mound and paving stones followed him up. Kyle stood, heart pounding, staring upward. What could he do? Jerec had claimed the Valley's power, had already harnessed it, and would soon rule what remained of the Empire. And then what?

A new Empire, worse than the first, and a whole lot bigger.

Despair threatened to pull him down. To come so far only to have failed those who counted on him was worse than death itself. The Rebel watched Jerec rise and marveled at the power the Dark Jedi had unleashed. Power waiting to be used, power that could defeat Jerec, that could pull him down...

Kyle brought himself up short. What had Jerec said? That's the second time you called on the dark side. What was the magic number, anyway? The repetitions beyond which one was changed? Was it three? Four? Five?

Suddenly, Kyle knew that the number didn't matter - that the light side offered more than enough power for any task he would be called upon to do, and that knowledge was the key.

The Jedi closed his eyes, resisted the temptation to look at the light that strobed against his eyelids, and sent a series of commands. He gathered the Force around him, shaped it into a protective cocoon, and sealed Jerec within.

Jerec felt a sense of warmth and peace as the cocoon of light formed around him. It was a wonderful sensation - and one he enjoyed, until something went wrong. The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force...

Who? How? The Dark Jedi fought to break through and knew it was too late. The dark, nearly black column of energy that pushed up out of the mound had been severed, and he, along with the rocks that had risen with him, plummeted to the ground.

Kyle opened his eyes, saw the Dark Jedi fall, and knew he had taken the correct approach. By doing something positive, by protecting Jerec from evil, the battle had been won. The ground under Kyle's boots crunched as he approached the fallen Jerec. Though stunned and badly bruised, Jerec was otherwise uninjured. In spite of his blindness, the Dark Jedi knew that Kyle stood over him with lightsaber in hand. His own weapon lay ten meters away - but may as well have been on the far side of the planet. Having never shown mercy to others, Jerec sought none for himself.

"Strike me down and the power of the dark side will be yours! It was I who took your father's head... or have you forgotten?"

Kyle looked down at the man before him and felt a strange sense of pity. Here he was, physically powerless, but still hoping to bring Kyle over or, failing that, to secure a quick and painless death. The Rebel shook his head.

"No, I haven't forgotten, and I never will."

He extended his hand, felt the Dark Jedi's lightsaber strike the surface of his palm, and then threw the weapon to Jerec. Jerec rejoiced in the agent's stupidity, leaped to his feet, and thumbed the power switch. Energy crackled as he moved forward, and Kyle came to meet him. The Rebel spun on the ball of his right foot, executed what Tal called the "falling leaf" and "slashed from the sky."

Jerec stutter-stepped, brought his weapon up and across, and waited for the inevitable result. Something warm touched his side, sliced inward, and stopped just short of his spine. It took Jerec a moment to understand what it was, to realize that his life had come to an end, and to start his long, dark journey.

Mm, "rival" pretty much means "rival". You either rival someone, or you don't really rival them.

But how close does someone have to be to rival them? 90%? 80%? 70%?

And clearly she could not do it on his own.

We don't know that. Plus unless I'm incorrect, she was able to kill C'baoth when Luke couldn't, as well.

Doesn't matter.

Ah. Now you're thinkin' with the crack-adled mind, kid. 😉

long quote...

The center was hollow. Dirt fell away from the edge and avalanched into the depression below. Jan arrived at Kyle's side, looked into the mound, and was amazed by what she saw - Jerec, quivering with the power that coursed through his body, light spilling from empty eye sockets. His voice came from everywhere at once.

"Yes! Join me! Share the power!"

Kyle moved forward; Jan grabbed for his arm and missed. The Jedi jumped, fell through the air, and absorbed the impact with his legs. His lightsaber sizzled as he turned it on.

"Yessss," the chorus chanted, "free us that we might merge with the Force!"

Jerec chose to ignore the lightsaber and the spirit voices. He spoke without turning.

"Your efforts are misguided. Can you hear them? Whining and sniveling? Is that what you seek to become? Another voice in a chorus of weakness?"

Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion. Kyle was propelled up and out of the chamber and onto the Valley floor. The impact knocked the air from his lungs.

He was lying there, trying to breathe, when an icy wind swept through the Valley. It circled slowly at first, as if gathering energy, before steadily picking up speed. Dust and other bits of debris were vacuumed up and whirled about. Voices wailed as mist billowed and the temperature continued to drop.

Kyle made it to one knee as Jerec levitated up and out of the mound. Voices moaned as large chunks of the inner mound and paving stones followed him up. Kyle stood, heart pounding, staring upward. What could he do? Jerec had claimed the Valley's power, had already harnessed it, and would soon rule what remained of the Empire. And then what?

A new Empire, worse than the first, and a whole lot bigger.

Despair threatened to pull him down. To come so far only to have failed those who counted on him was worse than death itself. The Rebel watched Jerec rise and marveled at the power the Dark Jedi had unleashed. Power waiting to be used, power that could defeat Jerec, that could pull him down...

Kyle brought himself up short. What had Jerec said? That's the second time you called on the dark side. What was the magic number, anyway? The repetitions beyond which one was changed? Was it three? Four? Five?

Suddenly, Kyle knew that the number didn't matter - that the light side offered more than enough power for any task he would be called upon to do, and that knowledge was the key.

The Jedi closed his eyes, resisted the temptation to look at the light that strobed against his eyelids, and sent a series of commands. He gathered the Force around him, shaped it into a protective cocoon, and sealed Jerec within.

Jerec felt a sense of warmth and peace as the cocoon of light formed around him. It was a wonderful sensation - and one he enjoyed, until something went wrong. The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force...

Who? How? The Dark Jedi fought to break through and knew it was too late. The dark, nearly black column of energy that pushed up out of the mound had been severed, and he, along with the rocks that had risen with him, plummeted to the ground.

Kyle opened his eyes, saw the Dark Jedi fall, and knew he had taken the correct approach. By doing something positive, by protecting Jerec from evil, the battle had been won. The ground under Kyle's boots crunched as he approached the fallen Jerec. Though stunned and badly bruised, Jerec was otherwise uninjured. In spite of his blindness, the Dark Jedi knew that Kyle stood over him with lightsaber in hand. His own weapon lay ten meters away - but may as well have been on the far side of the planet. Having never shown mercy to others, Jerec sought none for himself.

"Strike me down and the power of the dark side will be yours! It was I who took your father's head... or have you forgotten?"

Kyle looked down at the man before him and felt a strange sense of pity. Here he was, physically powerless, but still hoping to bring Kyle over or, failing that, to secure a quick and painless death. The Rebel shook his head.

"No, I haven't forgotten, and I never will."

He extended his hand, felt the Dark Jedi's lightsaber strike the surface of his palm, and then threw the weapon to Jerec. Jerec rejoiced in the agent's stupidity, leaped to his feet, and thumbed the power switch. Energy crackled as he moved forward, and Kyle came to meet him. The Rebel spun on the ball of his right foot, executed what Tal called the "falling leaf" and "slashed from the sky."

Jerec stutter-stepped, brought his weapon up and across, and waited for the inevitable result. Something warm touched his side, sliced inward, and stopped just short of his spine. It took Jerec a moment to understand what it was, to realize that his life had come to an end, and to start his long, dark journey.

So he did beat him. Surived an assualt from a man who had in that time been more powerful than Vader, and then used the Force to defeat him.
Imagine what he could do to Vader. 😮‍💨

But how close does someone have to be to rival them? 90%? 80%? 70%?

Could be any of those, truth be told. But, 'fact is, Jerec at his average state still did rival him, and Kyle fought a Jerec not only empowered - but also not holding back.
With Luke, the opposite.

Jesus Christ...

We don't know that. Plus unless I'm incorrect, she was able to kill C'baoth when Luke couldn't, as well.

Eevrything suggests that... Considering her powers paled in comparison to Luke. Hell she hardly knew how to handle the saber. As for C'baoth... It's no like he was distracted fighting off a pack of vornskrs or anything... Honestly with this logic Vader>Palpatine...

Ah. Now you're thinkin' with the crack-adled mind, kid.

🙄

So he did beat him. Surived an assualt from a man who had in that time been more powerful than Vader, and then used the Force to defeat him.
Imagine what he could do to Vader.

It was a one time instance and he had an unusally strong connection to the force at the time... There is no reason to beleive that he could use it at anytime. Afterall he didn't use it against Jacen.
Regardless cocoons of force energy can be broken through.

Could be any of those, truth be told. But, 'fact is, Jerec at his average state still did rival him, and Kyle fought a Jerec not only empowered - but also not holding back.

Sure but as I said rivaled is unquantifiable.

With Luke, the opposite.

Not a whole lot to support this honeslty. Luke beleives Vader did not go all out against him, but Vader admits in SotE that Luke was a highly challenging opponent. And this Luke is superior to his RotJ incarnation.

Jesus Christ...

He is wonderful.

Eevrything suggests that... Considering her powers paled in comparison to Luke. Hell she hardly knew how to handle the saber. As for C'baoth... It's no like he was distracted fighting off a pack of vornskrs or anything... Honestly with this logic Vader>Palpatine...

Mm, the book stated she had held a saber less times in her life than she could count on both hands - and yet still she took out Luke's clone, and C'baoth.
And nah, he wasn't very distracted - they leapt at him and got fried.
But then she stepped up to the plate and took his butt out.
Luke couldn't manage that.
😮‍💨

It was a one time instance and he had an unusally strong connection to the force at the time... There is no reason to beleive that he could use it at anytime. Afterall he didn't use it against Jacen.
Regardless cocoons of force energy can be broken through.

He still survived an assault from someone more powerful than Vader, meaning there is evidence to suggest he could kill Vader as well.

Sure but as I said rivaled is unquantifiable.

Mm, it's a simple word. Like I said, you either rival someone, or you don't. Savvy.

Not a whole lot to support this honeslty. Luke beleives Vader did not go all out against him, but Vader admits in SotE that Luke was a highly challenging opponent. And this Luke is superior to his RotJ incarnation.

Hmm? A less experienced Luke superior to a more experienced Luke? Illogical.
We know that Vader held back because he loved his son.

Jerec, who was more powerful than Vader, didn't hold back on Kyle.

My god... This is my last post on this topic as you don't seem to understand the circumstances invloved in thses fights... Hell the beasts were still coming at Joruus when Mara Jade struck him down.

He still survived an assault from someone more powerful than Vader, meaning there is evidence to suggest he could kill Vader as well.

Faulty logic. Once agin extenuating circumstances were involved in this fight...
Honestly if we go with this Lumiya would be more powerful than Palpatine since she survived a fight with LotF Luke...

Hmm? A less experienced Luke superior to a more experienced Luke? Illogical.

Are you dense or something? TTT takes place after RotJ...

We know that Vader held back because he loved his son.

Prove it.

Jerec, who was more powerful than Vader, didn't hold back on Kyle.

Prove it.

[QUOTE=13297365]Originally posted by ares834
[B]My god... This is my last post on this topic as you don't seem to understand the circumstances invloved in thses fights... Hell the beasts were still coming at Joruus when Mara Jade struck him down.

And she could have blocked that lightning on her blade same way Kenobi did with Dooku, and she still could have killed him.
She's a bad b*tch like that. 😉

Faulty logic. Once agin extenuating circumstances were involved in this fight...
Honestly if we go with this Lumiya would be more powerful than Palpatine since she survived a fight with LotF Luke...

And we know Kyle grew more and more adept with a lightsaber and beat him with a combination of skill and the Force, and this was a greater threat than Vader.

Are you dense or something? TTT takes place after RotJ...

Mm, you worded your earlier sentence wrong. And this version of Luke would still lose to a Vader that didn't hold back.

Prove it.

Watch Return of the Jedi, and pay attention. Don't smoke any Crack during it.

Prove it.

Jerec had the power of the Valley in him, making him more powerful than Vader at the time.

And Jerec didn't meet him in that place to have a tea party.

Savvy? 😛

Alright, kid. Been a pleasure masta-debatin' with you.

I'm going to retire now, and stick some lightsaber-crystals into my hobbit-pipe..😮‍💨

You seem like a nice lad, with a good head on your shoulders.

Keep those flags wavin'..the flags of discontent. 😉

Time to puff myself to sleep..

Adios.

Luke is wwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyy better than fisto, kolar and tinn ,add mara and kyle .luke mara and kyle screw team 2 up.

im the debateing type of person , mara couldent of blocked lightning on her blade if she had just thrown her lightsaber away like luke did. Also, mara lost to jacen solo in the book wich if luke fought him he would have won. VADER DID NOT LET LUKE WIN HE BEAT VADER WITH HIS SKILL.Give me a couple reasons how vader let him win, i watched ROTJ a thousand times i saw no indication of vader letting luke win!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by plo koon 3745
im the debateing type of person , mara couldent of blocked lightning on her blade if she had just thrown her lightsaber away like luke did. Also, mara lost to jacen solo in the book wich if luke fought him he would have won. VADER DID NOT LET LUKE WIN HE BEAT VADER WITH HIS SKILL.Give me a couple reasons how vader let him win, i watched ROTJ a thousand times i saw no indication of vader letting luke win!!!!!!!!!!!

L. M. A. O