Originally posted by TricksterPriest
If freaking Quicksilver can react faster than a reasonably high end telepath, that doesn't bode well for X-Man. Hell, Flash has moved faster than telepaths before.Nate has to think to use his powers. By the time he thinks, Flash can hit him thousands of times if he's trying.
Originally posted by "Id"
Speed is measured by factoring time & distance. But relevant time is no longer relevant for X-Man. Not as long he stays tuned into the “Planck Length”. On top of granting him precog, and the ability to view a characters entire timeline. To an extant, he can manipulate time, and cherry pick when to strike.Its practically a supped up version of Zoom. That’s the problem Flash faces over Nate.
And he's intangible - made up of nothing but psionic energy
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
If freaking Quicksilver can react faster than a reasonably high end telepath, that doesn't bode well for X-Man. Hell, Flash has moved faster than telepaths before.Nate has to think to use his powers. By the time he thinks, Flash can hit him thousands of times if he's trying.
And what is X-Man’s “cognition”, when he is a walking mental force?
BTW as a point of reference - Nate clocked dead in their tracks Aurora, and Northstar way back in AoA.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6192/xman028large1112.jpg
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Sorry man, but considering who he's up against, that feat doesn't mean a thing. Nice speed feat though. 👆
Originally posted by -K-M-
It's AOA versions of the twins which were pale comparsions to their 616 counterparts. Meh!Also Flash > Twins
That was Nate’s speed of thought back when he had a human body, with very human limitations. What is his speed of thought now, that he is a walking mental force....literally?
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Sorry man, but considering who he's up against, that feat doesn't mean a thing. Nice speed feat though. 👆
So, if being able to see into the future and step outside of time is not enough to be able to hang w/ flash speedwise, what would it take for you to think he wast fast enough?
I thought the whole crux of the debate circled around how X-Man has telekinetically moved past the limitations and flow of time, and achieved Zoom-like abilities?
Also, is there any proof of that? I only have a vague recollection of his fight with the Dark Avengers, but I don't know if this whole premise is based on anything beyond that scene.
He's got Zoom's power now? 😑 Can someone show me a scan? Because I haven't heard a thing about him being on that level.
Simbon: Wally is faster than Death itself. He outraced the Black Flash to the end of the universe. It's almost impossible to outrace the Flash. I've heard of something called 'The Shrike' that might be faster, but that thing has hax time manipulation.
Originally posted by Existere
I thought the whole crux of the debate circled around how X-Man has telekinetically moved past the limitations and flow of time, and achieved Zoom-like abilities?
It’s a fine argument, but at least make it a relative comparison. Don’t apply human standards to someone who isn’t human.
Originally posted by Existere
Also, is there any proof of that? I only have a vague recollection of his fight with the Dark Avengers, but I don't know if this whole premise is based on anything beyond that scene.
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1583/darkxmen003014.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2325/darkxmen003015.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3186/darkxmen003016.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8082/darkxmen003017.jpg
I am going to hold my breath, and wait to see if Marvel will expand on this.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He's got Zoom's power now? 😑 Can someone show me a scan? Because I haven't heard a thing about him being on that level.Simbon: Wally is faster than Death itself. He outraced the Black Flash to the end of the universe. It's almost impossible to outrace the Flash. I've heard of something called 'The Shrike' that might be faster, but that thing has hax time manipulation.
I'm not saying flash doesn't have crazy speed feats (that is obvious; and by the way, I'm never impressed with feats against abstractions, which paradoxically tend to be weaker than many comics characters -- affecting reality with physical blows, for instance, has been accomplished by many herald-levellers), but Nate has demonstrated the ability to see through and manipulate time to a limited extent. So I'm asking you, within the marvel universe, what he would have to do to be able to hang with wally.
The problem with Flash is......if he can hurt you with his blows, you're in trouble. At his best, The Flash is faster than anything. Pico-second, atto-second, he's got feats that defy description. He's outraced instant teleportation.
No one in Marvel is that fast. Nate would need time manipulation, and he'd need to be fast enough to activate it before Flash got to him. This is a very hard thing to do. Even Surfer and Runner aren't as fast as Flash.
You need to be either so durable he can't hurt you, be faster, have instant healing, energy form, hax time manip........, dude, this is actually hard to do without going into trans, skyfather and up level power. And even then, you might lose. Abstracts beat him for sure, but Flash is incredibly uber. srug
Originally posted by TricksterPriestProblem is built right into the premise of the speed force being the absolute limit of speed more than it being a problem with the flashes. When the absolute limit of speed is above the speed it takes to run through time and dimensions by leaps and bounds there isn't very much anyone can do about it unless you can control the fundamental ways in which time space and the universe works. It's not so much that X-man has to beat Wally it's that he has to beat the speed-force to beat Wally.
The problem with Flash is......if he can hurt you with his blows, you're in trouble. At his best, The Flash is faster than anything. Pico-second, atto-second, he's got feats that defy description. He's outraced instant teleportation.No one in Marvel is that fast. Nate would need time manipulation, and he'd need to be fast enough to activate it before Flash got to him. This is a very hard thing to do. Even Surfer and Runner aren't as fast as Flash.
You need to be either so durable he can't hurt you, be faster, have instant healing, energy form, hax time manip........, dude, this is actually hard to do without going into trans, skyfather and up level power. And even then, you might lose. Abstracts beat him for sure, but Flash is incredibly uber. srug
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The problem with Flash is......if he can hurt you with his blows, you're in trouble. At his best, The Flash is faster than anything. Pico-second, atto-second, he's got feats that defy description. He's outraced instant teleportation.No one in Marvel is that fast. Nate would need time manipulation, and he'd need to be fast enough to activate it before Flash got to him. This is a very hard thing to do. Even Surfer and Runner aren't as fast as Flash.
You need to be either so durable he can't hurt you, be faster, have instant healing, energy form, hax time manip........, dude, this is actually hard to do without going into trans, skyfather and up level power. And even then, you might lose. Abstracts beat him for sure, but Flash is incredibly uber. srug
Nate has precognition and some kind of time manipulation.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestEven then with Zoom time hax if Flash ever takes the kiddy gloves off and goes for the kill he can and will with little effort like when he snapped zoom's neck like a twig.
Uriel just nailed it right there. It's not the Flash you have to beat. It's the Speed Force. You have to more powerful than the Speed Force or have Zoom level time hax to beat him.
