Captain America vs. (Classic) Kingpin

Originally posted by h1a8
But CA is stronger, faster, and far more skilled than Classic Kingpin. Plus CA has a shield you know.
CA is pareto optimal over him. So how can he even win 1 fight against CA?

Kingpin is considered peak human now, but until at least the late 80's, he was shown as having superhuman strength - at least 3 tons worth. There was no real explanation (he's not a mutant or anything), he's was just freakishly strong.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hey. Guys. Check Kingpin's respect thread. He's already GOT a win on Cap. Granted, Steve is a better fighter, but he did get rocked once.

It's not the same Steve anymore.

Originally posted by Juk3n
15 year old pete can't fight, not even a lick, notice how Cap takes down people way above his weight class? Thats what Fisk did to pete. pete had all the tools, but not the experience or the ability, Fisk had the ability and the experience..Pete got ownd.

ALTHOUGH - i'll throw the "holding back" card out here rather than take at face value a scan of KP holding Pete immobilized, when in the previous page, we just saw pete throw a couple of cars 🙄

Cap wins Bucky or Steve.

He wasn't 15 years old. I'd say he was >20, easily.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He wasn't 15 years old. I'd say he was >20, easily.

Age matters not, he was still a boy, not a man!

Originally posted by Juk3n
Age matters not, he was still a boy, not a man!

He will never be a man 😕

Standard equipment means that Kingpin has gas in the second fight. Could be dangerous to Cap in the train.

Classic Kingpin got dethroned by Daredevil. KP still had his phenomenal strength then. Cap 7/10

I don't recall him using gas as the standard in his fights with Spidey, Daredevil, Cap or Red Skull so that's seems out of the standard.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Classic KP was also above Class 10 Spider-Man though.

Steve Rogers 7/10.

I go with classic KP.

1. Steve Rogers
2. Wilson Fisk

Kingpin

Originally posted by Juk3n
15 year old pete can't fight, not even a lick, notice how Cap takes down people way above his weight class? Thats what Fisk did to pete. pete had all the tools, but not the experience or the ability, Fisk had the ability and the experience..Pete got ownd.

As pointed out, Fisk not only beat Cap, but Red Skill as well. And he literally yawned off pressure point strikes, and even shrugged off having his insteps stomped on defeating the latter.

I agree with your points about Spidey, but anyone who can tear apart a metal scaffolding with his bare hands is far from peak human (Seriously, how strong would you need to be to tear steel beams apart with your bare hands and lift the pile of metal up, while Spidey's clinging to it?)

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Classic Kingpin got dethroned by Daredevil. KP still had his phenomenal strength then. Cap 7/10

I don't recall him using gas as the standard in his fights with Spidey, Daredevil, Cap or Red Skull so that's seems out of the standard.

classic kp had a lapel with acid and a knockout gas cane that he doesnt use anymore.

anyways

1.) kp
2.) kp

also: spidey's first fight with fisk was after years of fighting thugs and super villians. as stiltman said, he was already in college

Idk... I still feel Kingpin can't take Steve. Steve has a lot of feats under his belt against opponents who out class Fisk in every way.

Kingpin's got plenty of feats as well. imo bearhug gives him 6/10.

Originally posted by h1a8
CA 10/10 in both

KP against Spidey was PIS. Kingpin doesn't have superhuman strength. He just has peak human strength.

Spidey at his highest showed class 100 strength. Spidey at his worst showed class 1 strength (struggling to lift a decent sized car). Thus King Pin matching Spidey means PIS (on Spidey's part).

👆

i call PIS on fisk even being a challenge to SM
he had no super powers wth, no idea why he could hang with pete
realistically a fight between the two would be like evan's (captain america) vs Bale's (batman)

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
That not true actually, though misconception. In fact I believe marvel them selfs have explained it in interviews if not mistaken. It less that KP classic level was class 10, but more in the fact that spiderman strength was not defined. He was not a 10 tonner consistently at the time or close to it. He was superhuman, but they had yet to define what that ment. Also parker held back against him even at those levels. It not as impressive as you would think, it just seems that way based off the fact we know how strong spidy is now. Thats haft the reason KP no longer his rogue, becuase once spidy strength was defined, there was really no logical reason for KP to be any threat to him.

👆

what a real punch from peter would do :

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/WhatIf-BackinBlack024.jpg

Steve wins an slight majority in both. Bucky loses in h2h unless he gets his murder intent, in which case he just murders Kingpin. In a non h2h combat Bucky just guns him down.