Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I know what his power set states. And Gladiator, by default, is always confident. His confidence is only ever brought up when it begins to wane or diminish. Otherwise, he's as confident as confident can be. It's the only thing that makes sense and supports the comics he's in. Otherwise we have to begin going through all of his appearances and determining how confident he is because he wasn't stated to be "fully confident". In which case, we have to guess - and without any basis - subscribe to him a level of confidence that the comic doesn't even hazard to imply, much less state.Gladiator doesn't have writer protection, you're right about that. Neither does Superman. He has as much writer protection as any hero in their self title has at any given moment. Gladiator couldn't kill Thor or Hulk because he was too weak or simply unable to do so, not because of plot purposes. Gladiator even admitted that Thor was "too powerful" for him. Based on the fight and their feats, I'll take his word on it. Trying to act like plot device is the only thing that saved people from Kallark's wrath is pretty silly. If Marvel wanted Gladiator to kick Thor/Hulk's ass, they would have clearly shown him doing so and having the heroes beat him with plot device. But they didn't.
Thor and "the real" Gladiator never fought.
Originally posted by DIAMONDBACK-777
Dude.......100 times the speed of light is easy to Flash. no He's gone billions of times faster than light speed. Ok trick... back this up without trying to use real life math. Remember this statement? Its yours.
Get em. I'm heading out but when I get back on, I would like to see what happened.
jake, gladiator also said that he was stronger than thor when he wrecked wonderman.. would you take his word on that also?? Hulk even said gladiators face should be meat sauce but instead gladiator was taking him into space.. thors hammer beat gladiator, did thor tuck his hammer on his side and go toe to toe with gladiator? Or did he raise his hammer, blast gladiator and then hit him multiple times with his hammer. I could beat tyson with a bat but i will not do it hand to hand. As for hulk, it took gladiators own power to stun him plus the radiation bath and then hulk pounding on a weaken gladiator. Also you do know that gladiator did not even worry about hulk and even sent thor koed across the sky for 60 seconds after he kicked away the hammer.. no hammer, no win for thor.
Originally posted by DIAMONDBACK-777
jake, gladiator also said that he was stronger than thor when he wrecked wonderman.. would you take his word on that also?? Hulk even said gladiators face should be meat sauce but instead gladiator was taking him into space.. thors hammer beat gladiator, did thor tuck his hammer on his side and go toe to toe with gladiator? Or did he raise his hammer, blast gladiator and then hit him multiple times with his hammer. I could beat tyson with a bat but i will not do it hand to hand. As for hulk, it took gladiators own power to stun him plus the radiation bath and then hulk pounding on a weaken gladiator. Also you do know that gladiator did not even worry about hulk and even sent thor koed across the sky for 60 seconds after he kicked away the hammer.. no hammer, no win for thor.
No, because statements don't mean anything or very little unless they are backed up and supported with on panel showings. Wrecking Wonder Man doesn't make you stronger than Thor, especially when Thor is shown and stated multiple times to be vastly superior to Simon.
Trying to twist that fight into "Mjolnir beating Gladiator, not Thor" is pretty weaksauce, tbh. It's Thor's standard weapon, arguably the thing best known for him; acting like it somehow lessens Thor's victory over Gladiator because he used his signature weapon is ridiculous, no? You with a bat beating Tyson =/= Thor with Mjolnir beating Gladiator, too. Gladiator only did as well against Thor as he did because he exploited the 60 second enchantment....something which no longer applies to Thor.
Whether you like it or not or believe it's unfair or whatever, Thor w/ Mjolnir is pretty much Thor as we debate him by default. And he was shown to be able to put down Gladiator in a handful of blows once he stopped holding back.
Considering Gladiator:
-Came from the future
-Had prep
-Attacked Jake Olsen, Thor's mortal alter ego
-Endangered Mandy, Olsen's girlfriend's daughter
-Exploited a weakness which no longer exists
-Was bloodlusted
And still couldn't beat Thor, I think it's safe to say who was shown to be superior.
Originally posted by DIAMONDBACK-777
Also jake, if gladiator was too weak or unable to kill hulk or thor and plot had nothing to do with it?? Then that would mean that spiderman beat firelord because hes strong enough or able to without plot right? You know firelord right? the herald who has gone toe to toe with surfer and thor.
What?
That's the not the same thing at all.
First of all, Gladiator is in the general (note: general) level as Thor/Hulk. Spider-Man is nowhere near Firelord's level. That's just ridiculous to even compare the two.
Secondly, Thor obliterated Gladiator once he stopped holding back, whereas Gladiator was bloodlusted and expressed his intent to kill Thor the entire fight. He couldn't. Not because of plot, but because and I quote "Thor is too powerful". The fight further proved that with the actual on panel evidence. Hell, Gladiator had plot device working FOR him and still lost.
Jake, you knew thor would not be killed even if they sent Kurse and gladiator after him.. thats a story that had thor as the star. You act as if it was a surprise that thor won. Kurse is 4 times stronger than thor and had him dead to rights until power pack begged thor to move, he was going to kill beta ray bill also.. did he kill them? he had them both where he wanted them, what happened... P.L.O.T... happened. The writer will not kill them off. Thats why firelord didnt roast spiderman or how captain america lives around hulk..plot and writer protection. Thats why DC and Marvel let that crossover where storm beat wonder woman be fan voted because neither company was going to let the other deside what would happen in those fights.
Why are those fights different jake, spiderman and thor are the heros.. they will be allowed to win no matter what. Tell me what did thor stop holding back? His strength.. no... his fighting skills?... no... The power of his hammer that as on panel statement shows that Dwarfs the power of even the greatest warrior? What did asorbing man tell thor when he asorbed the hammers power?.. QUOTE.. Not even you can beat your own hammer.. Thors QUOTE.. Hes right, i now face a weapon that dwarfs the the power of the greatest warrior.. Do you think that thor could beat gladiator if gladiator was the one odin gave the hammer to and gladiator used its power against thor?
Originally posted by DIAMONDBACK-777
Jake, you knew thor would not be killed even if they sent Kurse and gladiator after him.. thats a story that had thor as the star. You act as if it was a surprise that thor won. Kurse is 4 times stronger than thor and had him dead to rights until power pack begged thor to move, he was going to kill beta ray bill also.. did he kill them? he had them both where he wanted them, what happened... P.L.O.T... happened. The writer will not kill them off. Thats why firelord didnt roast spiderman or how captain america lives around hulk..plot and writer protection. Thats why DC and Marvel let that crossover where storm beat wonder woman be fan voted because neither company was going to let the other deside what would happen in those fights.
😬
So every time Thor beats someone or survives an encounter it's plot related? Where do you draw the line, then? When does it become a valid feat and when is it plot related?
I trust you see this is dangerous territory to tread. Citing specific examples of PIS doesn't disqualify all of what the character has done, nor does it invalidate all feats performed by the "hero" of the story.
Originally posted by DIAMONDBACK-777
Why are those fights different jake, spiderman and thor are the heros.. they will be allowed to win no matter what. Tell me what did thor stop holding back? His strength.. no... his fighting skills?... no... The power of his hammer that as on panel statement shows that Dwarfs the power of even the greatest warrior? What did asorbing man tell thor when he asorbed the hammers power?.. QUOTE.. Not even you can beat your own hammer.. Thors QUOTE.. Hes right, i now face a weapon that dwarfs the the power of the greatest warrior... But goodnite for now jake.
😐 He held back his strength, obviously. Through out the entire fight he was mostly resorting to defending himself and trying to determine what the hell was wrong with Gladiator as he was out for blood. But once Gladiator's zeal inadvertantly endangered more civilian lives, Thor had had enough and promptly unleashed his anger on the guy. He clearly stated he was holding back, and given the stark difference between Thor vs. Gladiator prior to that and Thor vs. Gladiator after he made that statement, it was clear he was telling the truth.
Picking and choosing which statements/feats/encounters count is pretty much the epitome of bias, though.
The line is drawn when one character has a limit placed on them to complete a story. You know, kind of like heros hanging over a shark tank when the bad guys could simply blow their brains out? Yet good guy gets loose and win in the end. Comic books that will come out in 2012 will be the same way, no surprise, bad guy knocks hero around, hero wins and save the day, fans happy. Hulk, wonderman and herc have beaten thor hand to hand when the hammer is no issue. Classic wonderman claimed to be stronger than thor and that was backed up by akron and Captain America more than once. Even thor himself heard it from Wonderman as wonderman was beating his ass. In that same issue, hyperion destroyed classic wonderman. Gladiator destroyed both hyperion and Wonderman. So if we use what happened in a comic, then there is no need to debate at all. spiderman beats firelord, end of debate. heros win all. And thor held back his hammers power, not his strength. And you still elude my question... Can thor beat gladiator if gladiator had gotten the hammer from odin and was a master of its powers???????
Originally posted by DIAMONDBACK-777
The line is drawn when one character has a limit placed on them to complete a story. You know, kind of like heros hanging over a shark tank when the bad guys could simply blow their brains out? Yet good guy gets loose and win in the end. Comic books that will come out in 2012 will be the same way, no surprise, bad guy knocks hero around, hero wins and save the day, fans happy. Hulk, wonderman and herc have beaten thor hand to hand when the hammer is no issue. Classic wonderman claimed to be stronger than thor and that was backed up by akron and Captain America more than once. Even thor himself heard it from Wonderman as wonderman was beating his ass. In that same issue, hyperion destroyed classic wonderman. Gladiator destroyed both hyperion and Wonderman. So if we use what happened in a comic, then there is no need to debate at all. spiderman beats firelord, end of debate. heros win all.
I don't even know where to begin.
Thor's stalemated Hulk and Hercules in H2H before. Wonder Man isn't stronger than Thor; he's even admitted this before. Hell, a lot of Simon's insecurities come from the fact he'll always be a second stringer when compared to Thor. And when they've faced similar threats/foes, Thor virtually always looks superior to Simon. Unless you seriously think Wonder Man is stronger than Thor? Which is, well, wrong.
We use what happens in comics, yeah. I don't see how you can not. The key is to look for consistency, exclude PIS and elements of plot, and have characters fight as best as they can as far as them still being in character.
If we do that, that eliminates Spider-Man beating Firelord as a valid example of what would go down in a forum fight.
Originally posted by DIAMONDBACK-777
And thor held back his hammers power, not his strength. And you still elude my question... Can thor beat gladiator if gladiator had gotten the hammer from odin and was a master of its powers???????
He held back his strength of arms. He pulls his punches/strikes all the time as proven on panel multiple times. As far as your hypothetical question goes, if this is an attempt to discredit Thor via his use of Mjolnir, it's a pretty lousy attempt. No one's arguing that Thor isn't significiantly more dangerous/overall powerful with Mjolnir than without it. But trying to somehow, I don't know...lowball Thor or act like it's somehow a fault against him that he used his signature weapon to great effect on Gladiator is pretty ridiculous.