Women should not have equal rights

Started by Non Jihadist2 pages

Women should not have equal rights

There are many passages dealing with men and women, and they are scattered throughout the Qur’an, but there are a number declaring that God created man and woman. At first this implies some equality, but on a closer study, women are not equal in any important sense. They are equal when it comes to faith and believing, but then the result of this believing does not bring equality in life. Sura 4:124 declares "And whosoever does deeds of righteousness, be it male or female, believing–they shall enter Paradise and not be wronged a single date-spot."1 The same thought is expressed in Sura 16:97, with a slightly different emphasis, "And whosoever does a righteous deed, be it male or female, believing, We shall assuredly give him to live a goodly life; and We shall recompense them their wage, according to the best of what they did." The repetition of this is again expressed in Sura 40:40, and almost similarly in Sura 53:45, when it is declared that God created male and female. (See also Sura 92:3 and 75:39 for the same thought.)

There are a variety of passages that suggest a bit different analysis regarding the status of women in the Qur’an. Wives on earth are still wives in Paradise with an exception that their impurity is gone. (Sura 2:25) Being no longer subject to the menstrual cycle is one bit of good news in the Qur’an. Now in natural living the cycle is gone when a woman reaches middle age or thereabouts, but wives in Paradise are believed to be always the same age as their husbands. The tradition states that wives and husbands would be about 30 or 33 years of age forever. To declare that a woman would be without impurity at age 30 or 33 would make sense, since that is a threatening time for women on earth who may not want to be pregnant. (The repetition of the passage is seen in 3:15 and 4:57.)

Although women may well read this as good news for themselves, in the overall context of the Qur’an which will emerge later in this article, it seems more likely intended to be good news to the men, because women who do not have menstrual bleeding anymore will always be available for sex, i.e. women will loose their only valid excuse to refuse their husband's demand for intercourse. Moreover, it is not even so clear whether these pure companions promised to the believers in 2:25, 3:15, and 4:57 are actually their earthly wives (in ‘purified form’) or whether they are not rather a reference to the houris that will be given to the male Muslim who enter paradise. (See the article, Did Allah forget the wives?)

There is another strain of thought running through the Qur’an and it involves paradise through the eyes of the male, rather than the female being there on her own right and because of her own faith. Paradise is described as a man’s world where he shall eat and drink with easy digestion. "Reclining upon couches ranged in rows; and We shall espouse them to wide-eyed houris," (52:20) or as Sales translated it, "virgins having large black eyes." (p. 506)

In Sura 37:44 the faithful have waiting for them fruits and high honor where they recline on couches face to face with spring water passed around to them "and with them wide-eyes maidens restraining their glances."

In Sura 38:52, the description is similar with an additional qualifier that the maidens are of equal age to the males. The men recline, are given abundant fruits, and the maidens are around them restraining their glances. Sale translated the additional description of maidens "refraining their looks from beholding any besides their spouses." (p. 447) In Sura 44:51 a little different emphasis is made. The Qur’an says, "Surely the god-fearing shall be in a station secure among gardens and fountains, robed in silk and brocade, set face to face. Even so, and We shall espouse them to wide-eyed houris, therein calling for every fruit, secure."

In Sura 56:23 Paradise is described with the fruit, couches, and "maidens restraining their glances, untouched before them by any men or jinn...lovely as rubies, beautiful as coral."

A paragraph later the maidens are said to be "good and comely...houris, cloister in cool pavilions...untouched before them by any man or jinn." Sura 56:10-25 describes the same scene in paradise with the couches, reclining face to face, with immortal youths going round about them with goblets, and ewers, and a cup from a spring (no brows throbbing, no intoxication) and such fruits as they shall choose, and such flesh of fowl as they desire, and wide-eyed houris as the likeness of hidden pearls, a recompense for that they labored." The Sura continues to underscore the fact that God created the spotless virgins, "chastely amorous, like of age for the Companions of the Right." Sura 78:32-33 confirms again the reward of the god-fearing who will be given a place of security, "gardens and vineyards and maidens with swelling breasts, like of age, and a cup overflowing."

Peace be with you

Re: Women should not have equal rights

IBC

Re: Re: Women should not have equal rights

Originally posted by Robtard
IBC

I hope this is not closed and we can debate Allah's message with the sinful womens liberation movement of the west.

Wow, not one thing you said argued that women are not equal to men. Worst. Mysoginist. Ever.

lol, I hate wasting the time to do serious responses to such obvious trollage, however, Muslim feminists would agree that there are different roles ascribed to men and women in the Quran, yet, the Quran also outlines how these roles are complimentary and just as important, if not equal in the sense of what specific things the members of either gender are allowed to do.

if the thread isn't just closed, I love this topic, so ya.... lots of opportunity to rant 🙂

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, I hate wasting the time to do serious responses to such obvious trollage, however, Muslim feminists would agree that there are different roles ascribed to men and women in the Quran, yet, the Quran also outlines how these roles are complimentary and just as important, if not equal in the sense of what specific things the members of either gender are allowed to do.

if the thread isn't just closed, I love this topic, so ya.... lots of opportunity to rant 🙂

True Muslim women would not be feminists.

They will go to hell,

Peace be with you.

there is a difference between a feminist and a Muslim feminist, though I'm sure you were well aware of this fact

A Muslim feminist is not trained by her husband enough.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, not one thing you said argued that women are not equal to men. Worst. Mysoginist. Ever.

No it is the word of ~Allah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, not one thing you Allah said argued that women are not equal to men. Worst. Mysoginist. Ever.
Originally posted by Non Jihadist
A Muslim feminist is not trained by her husband enough.

that isnt correct. a Muslim feminist thinks such training makes her a better Muslim and is therefore something to be celebrated

oppression is freedom basically

Originally posted by inimalist
that isnt correct. a Muslim feminist thinks such training makes her a better Muslim and is therefore something to be celebrated

oppression is freedom basically

Allah be praised.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Allah is the way.

moomtez zauji, jaiyed shai wa toofil

Hey pal, I wear makeup, i wear red lipstick or sparkly pink lipstick, have nail polish on my fingers and toes, have piercings, am going to get a tattoo, and a while ago i cut my hair as short [and even shorter] than some boys I know. Two of my friends are a lesbian couple, I have a close friend that's gay, I wear open-toed sandals or flip-flops, and sometimes I wear heels. I wear tank-tops, and i've slept in the nude.

I like to shave my legs so they're smooth and look better, I put on perfume so I smell nice, and spend my money on fancy jewelry and fancy clothes. I read all the time. I've read forbidden books and banned books and books about the flaws in my own culture and in other cultures. I went to school, elementary, middle, and high school, plus college. I write stories for a living. I have one male nuclear relative - my father - and he encourages me to be independent and do the things I want to do. I will be the one to choose who I love and marry.

Yeah, I know you think I'm inferior and sinful and a seductress and need to be guided by a man in everything. I don't give a rat's ass. [yeah, I cuss too.]

And guess what? Your expressed opinions make me think you're the inferior one.

And if there are any guys or girls out there who understand and/or are okay with my lifestyle, they probably dislike you a bit too.

Finally, this should go in the religion section. I'm reporting for for both this reason and because these words are offensive and inappropriate in this particular forum.

that's not cool at all. free speech until someone gets offended?

Originally posted by inimalist
that's not cool at all. free speech until someone gets offended?

Thank you my friend. I am off to pray for a bit.

Peace be with you.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Hey pal, I wear makeup, i wear red lipstick or sparkly pink lipstick, have nail polish on my fingers and toes, have piercings, am going to get a tattoo, and a while ago i cut my hair as short [and even shorter] than some boys I know. Two of my friends are a lesbian couple, I have a close friend that's gay, I wear open-toed sandals or flip-flops, and sometimes I wear heels. I wear tank-tops, and i've slept in the nude.

I like to shave my legs so they're smooth and look better, I put on perfume so I smell nice, and spend my money on fancy jewelry and fancy clothes. I read all the time. I've read forbidden books and banned books and books about the flaws in my own culture and in other cultures. I went to school, elementary, middle, and high school, plus college. I write stories for a living. I have one male nuclear relative - my father - and he encourages me to be independent and do the things I want to do. I will be the one to choose who I love and marry.

Yeah, I know you think I'm inferior and sinful and a seductress and need to be guided by a man in everything. I don't give a rat's ass. [yeah, I cuss too.]

And guess what? Your expressed opinions make me think you're the inferior one.

And if there are any guys or girls out there who understand and/or are okay with my lifestyle, they probably dislike you a bit too.

Finally, this should go in the religion section. I'm reporting for for both this reason and because these words are offensive and inappropriate in this particular forum.

I always wanted to put on nail varnish, it seems like an excellent fashion addition. Might do that sometime.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, I hate wasting the time to do serious responses to such obvious trollage, however, Muslim feminists would agree that there are different roles ascribed to men and women in the Quran, yet, the Quran also outlines how these roles are complimentary and just as important, if not equal in the sense of what specific things the members of either gender are allowed to do.

if the thread isn't just closed, I love this topic, so ya.... lots of opportunity to rant 🙂

Sounds pretty much like Christianity and Judaism when you get right down to it.

Praise Allah that we've had a few thousand years to get over his bullshit, no matter which name we call him.

Originally posted by inimalist
oppression is freedom basically

oppression is worship, basically.