Women should not have equal rights

Originally posted by skekUng
Sounds pretty much like Christianity and Judaism when you get right down to it.

sort of

the difference is, feminism that has emerged from those traditions was entirely critical of religion, whereas Muslim Feminism does whatever it can to not criticize the religious tradition

Originally posted by skekUng
oppression is worship, basically.

you worship the things you oppress?

or, if you mean, worship is oppression, I don't really agree. There are many Muslim women who deny muslim feminism. It is entirely possible to be religious and have egalitarian views on people, imho at least

Originally posted by inimalist
sort of

the difference is, feminism that has emerged from those traditions was entirely critical of religion, whereas Muslim Feminism does whatever it can to not criticize the religious tradition

you worship the things you oppress?

or, if you mean, worship is oppression, I don't really agree. There are many Muslim women who deny muslim feminism. It is entirely possible to be religious and have egalitarian views on people, imho at least

the origins of the role of women that was allowed to propogate was what inspired that criticism. Originally, in the texts of the earliest Christian cults, women had significantly larger and equal roles in the religious society. So, in the case of Islam, to enjoy your oppression is to worship, correctly.

Reading this has shown me how very similar this view is to that of the Qun from Dragon Age 2. 🙁

I might not agree with it, but if you honestly believe that, then that's your choice. It's not going to make you popular to claim someone is inferior to another simply because they were born a different gender. This, I cannot accept.

Originally posted by skekUng
the origins of the role of women that was allowed to propogate was what inspired that criticism. Originally, in the texts of the earliest Christian cults, women had significantly larger and equal roles in the religious society. So, in the case of Islam, to enjoy your oppression is to worship, correctly.

if you think the only way to be a Muslim is through explicit literalism with regard to the Quran, sure. But that is the same of nearly every book, let alone religious text, that was written before 1800.

I suppose some societies have been more egalitarian in some regards, but even societies where women might have played a larger role in religious administration can hardly be called equal. Greece, Rome, Egypt, etc, all had very male centric authority structures. Even the places, such as Gaul or whatnot, that are look to as beacons of equality in the ancient world are really only equal relatively, I don't think women have ever had as much freedom as they have had in modern western society.

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't think women have ever had as much freedom as they have had in modern western society.

I agree with that entirely.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I always wanted to put on nail varnish, it seems like an excellent fashion addition. Might do that sometime.

You can always use a "top coat" clear varnish. It makes your nails look healthier without all that fuss in choosing a color. Or if you wanted to closet your nails, try fire engine red on your toes. Fire engine red is so invigorating and naughty-feeling. 😉

Originally posted by inimalist
that's not cool at all. free speech until someone gets offended?

just vocalizing my opinion.

sorry for the double posting.

What the hell is a "Muss Lamb"?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What the hell is a "Muss Lamb"?

The mascot for the University of Utah's basketball, soccer, and football fan club?

... 😱

Alright, no one's going to get that one... ermm

Originally posted by Non Jihadist
There are many passages dealing with men and women, and they are scattered throughout the Qur’an, but there are a number declaring that God created man and woman. At first this implies some equality, but on a closer study, women are not equal in any important sense. They are equal when it comes to faith and believing, but then the result of this believing does not bring equality in life. Sura 4:124 declares "And whosoever does deeds of righteousness, be it male or female, believing–they shall enter Paradise and not be wronged a single date-spot."1 The same thought is expressed in Sura 16:97, with a slightly different emphasis, "And whosoever does a righteous deed, be it male or female, believing, We shall assuredly give him to live a goodly life; and We shall recompense them their wage, according to the best of what they did." The repetition of this is again expressed in Sura 40:40, and almost similarly in Sura 53:45, when it is declared that God created male and female. (See also Sura 92:3 and 75:39 for the same thought.)

There are a variety of passages that suggest a bit different analysis regarding the status of women in the Qur’an. Wives on earth are still wives in Paradise with an exception that their impurity is gone. (Sura 2:25) Being no longer subject to the menstrual cycle is one bit of good news in the Qur’an. Now in natural living the cycle is gone when a woman reaches middle age or thereabouts, but wives in Paradise are believed to be always the same age as their husbands. The tradition states that wives and husbands would be about 30 or 33 years of age forever. To declare that a woman would be without impurity at age 30 or 33 would make sense, since that is a threatening time for women on earth who may not want to be pregnant. (The repetition of the passage is seen in 3:15 and 4:57.)

Although women may well read this as good news for themselves, in the overall context of the Qur’an which will emerge later in this article, it seems more likely intended to be good news to the men, because women who do not have menstrual bleeding anymore will always be available for sex, i.e. women will loose their only valid excuse to refuse their husband's demand for intercourse. Moreover, it is not even so clear whether these pure companions promised to the believers in 2:25, 3:15, and 4:57 are actually their earthly wives (in ‘purified form’) or whether they are not rather a reference to the houris that will be given to the male Muslim who enter paradise. (See the article, Did Allah forget the wives?)

There is another strain of thought running through the Qur’an and it involves paradise through the eyes of the male, rather than the female being there on her own right and because of her own faith. Paradise is described as a man’s world where he shall eat and drink with easy digestion. "Reclining upon couches ranged in rows; and We shall espouse them to wide-eyed houris," (52:20) or as Sales translated it, "virgins having large black eyes." (p. 506)

In Sura 37:44 the faithful have waiting for them fruits and high honor where they recline on couches face to face with spring water passed around to them "and with them wide-eyes maidens restraining their glances."

In Sura 38:52, the description is similar with an additional qualifier that the maidens are of equal age to the males. The men recline, are given abundant fruits, and the maidens are around them restraining their glances. Sale translated the additional description of maidens "refraining their looks from beholding any besides their spouses." (p. 447) In Sura 44:51 a little different emphasis is made. The Qur’an says, "Surely the god-fearing shall be in a station secure among gardens and fountains, robed in silk and brocade, set face to face. Even so, and We shall espouse them to wide-eyed houris, therein calling for every fruit, secure."

In Sura 56:23 Paradise is described with the fruit, couches, and "maidens restraining their glances, untouched before them by any men or jinn...lovely as rubies, beautiful as coral."

A paragraph later the maidens are said to be "good and comely...houris, cloister in cool pavilions...untouched before them by any man or jinn." Sura 56:10-25 describes the same scene in paradise with the couches, reclining face to face, with immortal youths going round about them with goblets, and ewers, and a cup from a spring (no brows throbbing, no intoxication) and such fruits as they shall choose, and such flesh of fowl as they desire, and wide-eyed houris as the likeness of hidden pearls, a recompense for that they labored." The Sura continues to underscore the fact that God created the spotless virgins, "chastely amorous, like of age for the Companions of the Right." Sura 78:32-33 confirms again the reward of the god-fearing who will be given a place of security, "gardens and vineyards and maidens with swelling breasts, like of age, and a cup overflowing."

Peace be with you

Dear Non-Jihadist,

Why the hell would any woman bother with allah's analysis when majority of dwellers in Hell are women anyway, according to Muhammad?

Second of all, isn't Jihad a religious duty of all Muslims? If so, and you're a non-Jihadist you aren't adhering to the teachings of Muhammad and therefore will end up in Hell with all the other women, spending eternity with the feminist movement.

Poetic justice, my friend.

Clear troll; closed.