All Jedi Orders vs All Sith Orders.

Here's the deal, every Sith and Jedi that ever existed has landed on the plains of Naboo, they are locked in battle and may use their fleets, armies, force powers (except for the Thought Bomb and the Exar Kun Amulet or Nihilus's Drain) and lightsabers as they wish.

So here are the statistics

Jedi - All Jedi that have ever existed

Jedi Fleet/Army - 800 Million

Sith - All Sith that have ever existed

Sith Fleet/Army - 800 Million

All unit types are used.

ENJOY 😄

Well **** that.

Palpatine throws a Death Star at Naboo and everybody scrambles to evacuate and attack it. He then sneaks around the system with the Sun Crusher and finishes them all.

Palpatine wins. And only Palpatine wins.

how about Bane drops a moon on em?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Palpatine throws a Death Star at Naboo and everybody scrambles to evacuate and attack it. He then sneaks around the system with the Sun Crusher and finishes them all.

Palpatine wins. And only Palpatine wins.

👆

Spoiler:
But I must take issue: Palpatine hasn't demonstrated telekinesis powerful enough to hurl the Death Star. That aside, good post.

He's the Emperor, he definitely has some remote command he can use to make go somewhere.

I'd think Jedi would curbstomp. There were several stretches where the Jedi were largely unopposed for thousands of years, while most Sith Empires lasted maybe hundreds, and even then normally contested by Jedi.

In sheer numbers, the Jedi have a longer history, and more numbers per era (exception being KotOR, New Sith Wars, Legacy--and maaaybe TOR). For some reason I've always liked Dorak's line from KotOR: "Eventually the Sith will overwhelm us with sheer numbers." Even a Jedi Master realizes that a 100:1 ratio is just too much, even for "tEh Force!"

I'd vote Sith personally. The usual trend is that especially BA Force users fall to the dark side, littering certain eras with one Big Bad and tons of Little Goons. Sith have no rules of engagement, and while they couldn't be relied upon to work in concert very well (the assumption here is that no politics or power grabs come into play, just a straight melee), they are more offense-based in nature and they love to use their fodder towards their advantage.

Example: Sith send their fodder in on suicide runs, or have them hold the line well beyond reason. Jedi, being morally driven, would lose a bit of themselves if they tried to compete in the same manner. No Sith lords would object to say, having their fleet crash into the enemy just for a one-up.

Second point - Sith Lords tend to be more uber than most Jedi. Sith Lords like Dooku, Exar Kun, Revan, Naga Sadow, Sidious, etc. are worth shittons of Jedi. Exar Kun himself brings up a good point - he could just waltz in anywhere and no Jedi could touch him. Beings like Sion could ambush Jedi and were specifically trained to assassinate them. Other sentients like Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow were reputed to be great magicians. Sadow alone could pump out illusions across multiple planets, and Ragnos is assumed to be powerful enough to destroy Luke's academy by himself, based on Luke's own fear of his return.

Assuming Darth Revan is allowed to be a Sith asset and member, he's a military genius head and shoulders above anyone in his era, credited singlehandedly in determining strategy which defeated the mighty Mandolorians. And then there's the martial Sith of Bane's time, who spent much of their time combating Jedi, thus giving them a distinct experience advantage over say, the thousand years worth of Jedi predating the PT who had no practical experience against Dark Siders at all!

IMO, it's skewed because the Dark Side is so powerful. That's the whole point - darkness is the "easy" way out, and thus many dark siders are necessarily more powerful than their light sided Jedi brethren. And some of the great names in history are simply too much for most Jedi, and this is assuming they don't get utterly crushed by some of the larger powers available.

Shhh! Keep it down, someone might hear that logic!

Anyways, Revan pwns them all then eats a cookie. Cuz he can do that stuff.

Also, i agree with the "Crashing a fleet into stuff" thing
The sith also have the though bomb as a last resort
They can burn the part of the planet no problem (with real fire and without actually harming their armies)
And Mace, Yoda, Kenobi, and maybe a couple others are pretty much the only ones who would stand a sh*t chance against the more powerful sith lords.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'd vote Sith personally. The usual trend is that especially BA Force users fall to the dark side, littering certain eras with one Big Bad and tons of Little Goons. Sith have no rules of engagement, and while they couldn't be relied upon to work in concert very well (the assumption here is that no politics or power grabs come into play, just a straight melee), they are more offense-based in nature and they love to use their fodder towards their advantage.

Example: Sith send their fodder in on suicide runs, or have them hold the line well beyond reason. Jedi, being morally driven, would lose a bit of themselves if they tried to compete in the same manner. No Sith lords would object to say, having their fleet crash into the enemy just for a one-up.

Second point - Sith Lords tend to be more uber than most Jedi. Sith Lords like Dooku, Exar Kun, Revan, Naga Sadow, Sidious, etc. are worth shittons of Jedi. Exar Kun himself brings up a good point - he could just waltz in anywhere and no Jedi could touch him. Beings like Sion could ambush Jedi and were specifically trained to assassinate them. Other sentients like Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow were reputed to be great magicians. Sadow alone could pump out illusions across multiple planets, and Ragnos is assumed to be powerful enough to destroy Luke's academy by himself, based on Luke's own fear of his return.

Assuming Darth Revan is allowed to be a Sith asset and member, he's a military genius head and shoulders above anyone in his era, credited singlehandedly in determining strategy which defeated the mighty Mandolorians. And then there's the martial Sith of Bane's time, who spent much of their time combating Jedi, thus giving them a distinct experience advantage over say, the thousand years worth of Jedi predating the PT who had no practical experience against Dark Siders at all!

IMO, it's skewed because the Dark Side is so powerful. That's the whole point - darkness is the "easy" way out, and thus many dark siders are necessarily more powerful than their light sided Jedi brethren. And some of the great names in history are simply too much for most Jedi, and this is assuming they don't get utterly crushed by some of the larger powers available.

Second point - Sith Lords tend to be more uber than most Jedi. Sith Lords like Dooku, Exar Kun, Revan, Naga Sadow, Sidious, etc. are worth shittons of Jedi. Exar Kun himself brings up a good point - he could just waltz in anywhere and no Jedi could touch him. Beings like Sion could ambush Jedi and were specifically trained to assassinate them. Other sentients like Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow were reputed to be great magicians. Sadow alone could pump out illusions across multiple planets, and Ragnos is assumed to be powerful enough to destroy Luke's academy by himself, based on Luke's own fear of his return.

Individually, yes. But we're talking probably thousands of *Masters* for every one of them.

Consider the Rule of Two era, Bane to Palpy- For every single generation RoT Sith that was trained, there was likewise a generation of Jedi trained, upwards of a thousand. In the same time you cross from one Sith to another, you might replace a quarter of the Council with entirely new masters who've reach that level. In the case of long-lived Sith, even more of them. And despite the Dark Side's vaunted power, every time the Sith did clash there's almost always a few members of the Jedi order strong enough to stand against them, your Mace Windus, Obi-Wans, Yodas, and so on.

Luke's academy was small and weak when he was terrified of Ragnos, a splinter of what it'd later become. Would the same hold true when the Jedi could, say, send two entire generation's worth of Jedi orders against him?

Whichever team revan is on, that team would rapestorm

REVAN RODE BRITNEY SPEARS BUTT TO YAVIN 4

Originally posted by Lucien
Of course, if we play the "realistic" card, we can counter the Dark Side's advantage of ruthlessness and and raw power with the Dark Side's disadvantage of ruthlessness and the lust for more raw power. The Dark Jedi and Sith do as they always do: betray each other.

That's the big "If" here. If personal plays for power are allowed, then it stands to reason that the Sith forces are too fractured to withstand a prolonged battle. Of course, it's just as likely that the Sith are eager to fight for their lives and band together because the alternative means immediate annihilation. They are, after all, already on the battlefield.

Individually, yes. But we're talking probably thousands of *Masters* for every one of them.

Yes, but some of the Sith Lords (not counting the lower ranked ones) were head and shoulders above most Jedi Masters. For example, what's to stop Darth Traya from severing handfuls from the Force at will? Most Jedi pursue peaceful negotiations and morally correct ways of resolving conflict. Toss every Sith in front of them -and- 800 million Sith fodder and it becomes chaos. Considering they're all on the ground, we should question whether or not some enterprising Sith Lord will just have all of the Sith spaceships divebomb the Jedi, gg folks.

Originally posted by Q99
Consider the Rule of Two era, Bane to Palpy- For every single generation RoT Sith that was trained, there was likewise a generation of Jedi trained, upwards of a thousand.

Interesting point. Yes, Bane's Rule of Two narrows the Sith numbers down considerably after his reign, but those during Revan's era or prior to Bane were considerable as well, more than the norm. It's presently difficult to say who had more numbers, but I believe tactics and martial training will make or break this argument here. I would compare it to the lesser numbers of the Wehrmacht overcoming say, the entire French army in record timing. In this case, martial ability and strategy matters as much if not more than sheer numbers.

And despite the Dark Side's vaunted power, every time the Sith did clash there's almost always a few members of the Jedi order strong enough to stand against them, your Mace Windus, Obi-Wans, Yodas, and so on.

My problem with this reasoning is that it's too vague. Sure, Yoda could "stand" against Dooku or Sidious, but he could not overcome them individually in the original circumstances. Imagine how he would do if tons of Sith fodder were surging forward, or Sadow's illusions were running amok? How would he do if Traya walked up to him and attempted to sever him from the Force, or Bane decides he wants to kick him into orbit?

The idea of everyone lining up and singling each other out like knights on a field of battle is unrealistic. The most reasonable scenario is of the Jedi attempting to defeat the Sith through maneuvering and directly avoiding conflict with Sith elites whenever possible, since they would have to literally dog-pile most of them to have any effect.

Only the most vain and foolish of Sith lords would attempt to tackle dozens of Jedi Masters and Knights without support or an underhanded method of dealing with them. Key example Exar Kun realized when he was overmatched, even though his arrogance is legendary in his own time. Assuming that all Sith Lords are out to stroke their egos in personal combat on a general scale begs for a good argument.

Also important, the Sith have no qualms about who dies in order to achieve victory. Their troops and starships are literally throwaway resources which they can use to hem the Jedi and their allies into unfavorable conditions. Assuming all Jedi were on the ground, mighty Sith Lords could order ships to divebomb the battlefield near the enemy. How many Jedi Masters can stop the descent of large battleships, or many many of them for that matter?

I'll check myself and move to another format to continue:

Sith benefits:

- No battle ethics means no restrictions. This makes them extremely dangerous and perhaps unpredictable to the more methodical and peace-oriented Jedi.

- Their powers are usually more destructive, and some of the Sith Lords are simply untouchable by the majority of Jedi, should they even come into direct contact.

- Army buffs like Sadow's mass illusions can swing the balance and remove advantages of sheer numbers, should the Jedi prove to be more numerous.

- Tactical genius Darth Revan would most likely be the reason why the Sith can outmaneuver the Jedi. A comparable Jedi general may exist, but at the moment I can't think of one.

- Traya eats tons of Jedi Masters with her Force nom.

- Saber legends like Kas-sim, Dooku, Revan, Exar Kun, Ulic, Tulak "OMF" Hord, etc. are fearsome opponents and would most likely destroy most Jedi Knight rank or below, and stalemate or even defeat most Masters while Force kings like DE Sidious, Nihilus and Ragnos start ragdolling folks for the lolz. Really, some of the Sith Lords are just way over the top.

Do I believe that the Jedi have no chance? Of course not. But I think generally, the situation favors the Sith.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

That's the big "If" here. If personal plays for power are allowed, then it stands to reason that the Sith forces are too fractured to withstand a prolonged battle. Of course, it's just as likely that the Sith are eager to fight for their lives and band together because the alternative means immediate annihilation. They are, after all, already on the battlefield.

Well, looking at their history, even in times of hardship the Sith have turned on each other. I mean look at Bane and the BoD. The BoD were fighting for their lives against the Army of Light, and still Kaan thought it was a good idea to send one of his best fighters to kill Bane. Bane tricked Kaan into killing himself and every other Sith on the planet, purely because of some philosophy he possessed.

I don't see the Sith forming an affective fighting force at all. It simply isn't possible for people like Naga Sadow to co-exist with people like Palpatine or Exar Kun.

In the end I see the majority of the Sith reduced to in-fighting while the more rational members like Bane and Revan see the bigger picture and form a truce. Palpatine might join those two, as his manipulative and political nature might override his arrogance.

Regardless, all the Sith who manage to survive the in-fighting simply get overrun by the Jedi who are united from day one.

Obviously, if Mace, Yoda, Kenobi, and some more of the Jedi Greats banded together into a single pocket, it would take a helluva lotta power to kill them. Eventually numbers would tell, or the Sith could use those uber rituals, but I think your downplaying the effect some of those jedi could have.

Exile>Traya, that much has been established. She will also sense her through their bond, if not just murdering 50 sith lords then killing herself to kill Traya, jedi tend to be into sacrifice for others.
Yoda is the "Greatest foe the darkness has ever known" after a VEEEERY long time. Thats no mundane accomplishment, Yoda is the most kick-ass jedi of all time, short of Luke "Force-God" Skywalker.
You are also forgetting the battlemasters, such as Katarn, Drallig, etc. hey are no lightweights when it comes to saber combat, and both have held off powerful dark siders.
Mace and Depa's Vapaad will also play a major role, as with dark siders it makes that superconducting loop, making a Jedi like Mace on par with ROTS Sidious. Mace could take almost any Sith there is, as long as he doesnt give them a chance to use the Force to any major extent.
Luke is obviously going to be able to rape half of them, theres no way any author wouldnt let him do that.
In reality, Luke would be very hard to take down as well.

But it goes back to the Sith just using one ritual to burn the entire planet apart.

Even with immediate danger in the works? Alright, here's my counter to you then: what's to say the overly numerous Jedi order wouldn't be fractioned and unable to form an effective fighting force then?

Well, looking at their history, even in times of hardship the Sith have turned on each other. I mean look at Bane and the BoD. The BoD were fighting for their lives against the Army of Light, and still Kaan thought it was a good idea to send one of his best fighters to kill Bane. Bane tricked Kaan into killing himself and every other Sith on the planet, purely because of some philosophy he possessed.

I don't see the Sith forming an affective fighting force at all. It simply isn't possible for people like Naga Sadow to co-exist with people like Palpatine or Exar Kun.

In the end I see the majority of the Sith reduced to in-fighting while the more rational members like Bane and Revan see the bigger picture and form a truce. Palpatine might join those two, as his manipulative and political nature might override his arrogance.

Regardless, all the Sith who manage to survive the in-fighting simply get overrun by the Jedi who are united from day one.

Agreed, the only way the Sith can deal with there numbers disadvantage and infighting would be something like the Thought Bomb, which they don't have. Otherwise they're either unable to form a cohesive defence and are swarmed or the Jedi form a massive Wall of Light ala Kuns defeat and **** them up.

That is true as well. If that happened, they would have to hope they can hold out long enough to get the Masters with them, or the Masters may be able to fight over to each other.

The jedi may be numerous, but that can work. Quantity in excess beats quality.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Even with immediate danger in the works? Alright, here's my counter to you then: what's to say the overly numerous Jedi order wouldn't be fractioned and unable to form an effective fighting force then?