Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I dont have to add anymore than what DC has already made perfectly clear.. And that's CM = Supes..Dont beat ureself up over it..
Except that feats would disagree.
When the two fight there's always the "they're equal" point of view that both men have stated, and that's usually when they're both fighting fair against one another.
The problem is that DC will never come out and admit that one is superior to the other, just like Marvel used to not allow writers to say who was superior between Juggernaut and Hulk on any decisive level.
Not dissing Billy; there's just a fair lump of evidence to say that when push comes to shove, Clark is superior (even if it's not by a whole lot, depending on your point of view). Not to mention when he's sundipped.
Thats just it.. Supes is their main man.. How can CM contend featswise when Clark is everywhere in the DC universe?? The sheer number of appearances by Clark dwarf's that of CM's... Therefore one has to go to OnPanel showings when the 2 are compared. Nothing beats a comparison where the 2 are actually in the same arc. One has to surmise directly from those showings because I believe that would be the best if not the fairest way to compare these two.. CM has to be given a chance where he actually has one..
Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that feats would disagree.When the two fight there's always the "they're equal" point of view that both men have stated, and that's usually when they're both fighting fair against one another.
The problem is that DC will never come out and admit that one is superior to the other, just like Marvel used to not allow writers to say who was superior between Juggernaut and Hulk on any decisive level.
Not dissing Billy; there's just a fair lump of evidence to say that when push comes to shove, Clark is superior (even if it's not by a whole lot, depending on your point of view). Not to mention when he's sundipped.
No, You have to compare them within shared arcs.
Not what Superman does in separate stories that do not involve CM at all.
If there are some direct comparison of feats where one can do something that the other can't do or does so more easily than the other can, that is where legitimate comparisons come from within this context; a context where its been an editorial rule for decades that they are to be equal.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Thats just it.. Supes is their main man.. How can CM contend featswise when Clark is everywhere in the DC universe?? The sheer number of appearances by Clark dwarf's that of CM's... Therefore one has to go to OnPanel showings when the 2 are compared. Nothing beats a comparison where the 2 are actually in the same arc. One has to surmise directly from those showings because I believe that would be the best if not the fairest way to compare these two.. CM has to be given a chance where he actually has one..
Originally posted by CosmicComet
No, You have to compare them within shared arcs.Not what Superman does in separate stories that do not involve CM at all.
If there are some direct comparison of feats where one can do something that the other can't do or does so more easily than the other can, that is where legitimate comparisons come from within this context; a context where its been an editorial rule for decades that they are to be equal.
so you want to ignore all of superman's feats outside of books that captain marvel is in? How is that at all fair?
Also, tell that to Grant Morrison.
Originally posted by -Pr-
so you want to ignore all of superman's feats outside of books that captain marvel is in? How is that at all fair?Also, tell that to Grant Morrison.
I'm not ignoring Supes's feats. Again I will stick to what I've said earlier.
I'll come clean with something though...
CM is one of my faves if not my top DC guy.....
Here.. I'll change my avatar just for you...
😆
But still they're equal damnit!!!
🤣
Captain Marvel's powers all stack and further contribute with one another. The Strength of Hercules (who Superman is stronger then) combines with the Stamina of Atlas which in turns combines with the Power of Zeus, which increases all of his physical attributes and provides him the magical lightning aspect of his powers. It's the Power of Shazam spell in totality which makes Marvel an equal/peer to Superman, not the individual aspects of them.
Marvel's feats have progressed and gotten better as time has progressed, and he's also experienced specific amps/increases in power outside of simply being portrayed as being stronger though virtue of feats. And then there's the actual direct correlation feats between the two.
When Superman is squared off against Captain Marvel, it's consistently been a stalemate, draw, inconclusive, or a dubious "win" for either character. Getting mad at Alex Ross or whomever for portraying Captain Marvel in a light that makes him an equal to Superman or better in some areas is just really silly, imo as well as dubbing it 'company policy', especially when using that same excuse/reasoning for why Superman is portrayed in the light he is, it would likely be viewed as hating Superman or being anti-Superman or otherwise unacceptable to a majority of people here.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Captain Marvel's powers all stack and further contribute with one another. The Strength of Hercules (who Superman is stronger then) combines with the Stamina of Atlas which in turns combines with the Power of Zeus, which increases all of his physical attributes and provides him the magical lightning aspect of his powers. It's the Power of Shazam spell in totality which makes Marvel an equal/peer to Superman, not the individual aspects of them.Marvel's feats have progressed and gotten better as time has progressed, and he's also experienced specific amps/increases in power outside of simply being portrayed as being stronger though virtue of feats. And then there's the actual direct correlation feats between the two.
When Superman is squared off against Captain Marvel, it's consistently been a stalemate, draw, inconclusive, or a dubious "win" for either character. Getting mad at Alex Ross or whomever for portraying Captain Marvel in a light that makes him an equal to Superman or better in some areas is just really silly, imo as well as dubbing it 'company policy', especially when using that same excuse/reasoning for why Superman is portrayed in the light he is, it would likely be viewed as hating Superman or being anti-Superman or otherwise unacceptable to a majority of people here.
I doubt anyone would disagree with most of that.
Do you differentiate between peer and equal?
Originally posted by -Pr-
I doubt anyone would disagree with most of that.Do you differentiate between peer and equal?
I do.
In some cases, Captain Marvel is portrayed as a peer and other times his (Superman's) equal.
I just feel that blaming it on a "fanboyish" writer or "company policy" sets up a slippery slope, especially when we all know saying the same thing about how Superman is presented would be immediately branded as unfair or holding bias against DC/Superman and set off quite a few people.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I do.In some cases, Captain Marvel is portrayed as a peer and other times his (Superman's) equal.
I just feel that blaming it on a "fanboyish" writer or "company policy" sets up a slippery slope, especially when we all know saying the same thing about how Superman is presented would be immediately branded as unfair or holding bias against DC/Superman and set off quite a few people.
And that's fine.
How do you account, though, for things like statements about Superman being faster, having less trouble with the infinite book, or throwing fights?
I'm not trying to put down Billy here; it just seems people are putting down Clark.
Originally posted by -Pr-
And that's fine.How do you account, though, for things like statements about Superman being faster, having less trouble with the infinite book, or throwing fights?
I'm not trying to put down Billy here; it just seems people are putting down Clark.
Which statements are you referring to as far as speed goes? I know in First Thunder, a first year in action Captain Marvel mentioned he couldn't go in deep space, though he's since done that numerous times. The infinite book thing was also Captain Marvel of Earth-5, and not the mainstream Captain Marvel; we can assume he'd be as strong as mainstream Captain Marvel, but it would be speculation, as would KC CM over mainstream Captain Marvel. I personally feel KC CM would be stronger than mainstream CM, but I can't explicitly prove it one way or the other. As far as throwing fights, which fights has Superman thrown?
In any case, we take those examples and we look at the times where it's been stated or shown that are peers and/or equals, either physically or as a whole. One doesn't automatically exclude the other.
I don't think anyone is putting down Clark, though. And I think that's a problem in of itself; Captain Marvel being a peer/equal to Superman doesn't hurt or otherwise put down Superman. The idea of Marvel being on that level or extremely close to it has no negative impact on Superman.