inimalist's Tournament

inimalist's Tournament

Ok, so this will be the thread to discuss and finalize the rules in my upcomming tournament! Let me know if there is anything I've missed, anything that seems like an easy exploit, or changes overall you think might improve the event.

Registration is open for participants and judges!

The Draft:

No amalgams

Drafts will be one at a time

Each participant will draft 3 characters, high meta as the limit, sort of, Iron Man on a normal day level. But really, as ambiguous as that sounds, I don't want characters who push that limit too much 😖hifty:

No characters who have attacks that would be unstoppable generally. Ala KK's tourney, a psychic or speedster attack is something you could reasonably expect and prepare for, an attack that is always 100% effective and lethal would not be allowed.

No characters who cannot be KO'd by a means generally available to most characters. Someone who is intangible to physical attacks, but still can be attacked by energy or other means is fine, someone who is only vulnerable to a rare magic item or some such, is not. A character who is unkillable would be fine so long as they can be KO'd reasonably

Time-Travel is not allowed in prep or in the battle. This includes travelling through realities. Other forms of travel are allowed, and objects may be brought from or retrieved during prep, however, any object that would make a character above the limits is banned.

All other forms of reality, time and probability manipulation are allowed, however, attacks using them directly would be banned from the tournament as they are unblockable for the vast majority of high meta level characters. However, rather than ban them completely, they are allowed. However, all abilities used by these powers must be shown in a scan. A time manipulator would not simply be allowed to manipulate time in any way you wanted, but only in ways they can be shown as manipulating it.

All forms of magic are allowed, with the above conditions applied. Dr. Strange must have cast a spell in a comic to use it.

Power duplication is allowed so long as the ensuring duplication would not amp a character above the limit. Multiple Man type abilities are allowed.

Unless someone is willing to help me judge the power-levels of anime or other types of characters, I can't allow them, I just don't know it well enough.

Unlimited posting

“Spirit of the Law”

Prep

Prep is 5 min.

You can go anywhere, retrieve anything, with the above stipulations.

You are not specifically banned from interfering with the battlefield prior to the fight, you just will not be informed of the location of your match before the event begins.

During this period, you will have no knowledge of your opponents, and you can not interfere with the location they are in, even if you do know it.

Any type of prep that produces anything above the limits of the tournament is banned.

before the first match, usernames are not revealed for any team. Each contestant will not know who they are against in the first round until after the prep posts are revealed, however, they will know the roster of the opponent's team.

Themes: You have the option of choosing a theme. They could be a broad as something like "Avengers" or "Power Cosmic", but not just "cosmic" or "New York". When you sign up for the tourney, you pick a theme. For each character choice, give me, like literally, one sentence as to how it fits the theme, ie: Man-Thing is a plant, or a Mystic, or etc. I will accept even the most broad justifications for themes, again, I don't want to hinder people's creativity, however, there are benefits to picking a team. Depending on whether we want to do a round robin or just a straight tournament, the person whose characters best fit their team will get a bye or an automatic win in their points total. This will be determined by a vote everyone, inducing participants, can decide on. To ensure anonymity, after all draft choices are decided, themes and characters will be matched up for the vote, but usernames are never used. However, just choosing a theme in the first place will earn an additional 15 min of prep! This will be awarded to all players who choose 3 characters that fit a theme.

Under-used characters: Basically the same idea, there is no "mandatory" use of new characters, however, each character on your team that has never been used in a tournament before gives you an additional 5 min of prep time, and if all of your characters have never been used, you get another additional 5 min. In total, any contestant who has 3 never used characters would get an additional 20 min of prep, and this would stack with the 15 from the theme. When you draft a character you think has never been used, you must inform me of this in the pm or it doesn't happen. I will post that this character is being drafted as “never-used”, and it is up to people to prove this wrong, the onus is not on the person drafting the character.

Thats all I've got for now. We can work out judges and other things later, I am just interested in seeing if there is enough interest in this in the first place. Please post in this thread if you are interested, don't send me themes yet, think about that and lets see if we can't get this off the ground!!

- i

[I'm undecided on teams. My ruling as of now is, if there is enough interest in the tourney, then I'd allow teams and solo competetors. If there are only 4-5 people interested anyways, I'd rather not do it as teams].

Judging from the tourney discussion thread, I think Herald class characters would probably generate more interest. Instead of allowing High Heralds, though, if you wanted to keep things from going into who can draft the most powerful guys first, you could cap things off at Mid-Herald? At least that's my suggestion for the power cap.

As far as the tourney itself, it looks pretty solid for the rules. I do like the concept of "hiding" drafts by usernames as to build up a suspense, especially if people go with random characters. I assume we would PM you with our drafts in a first come, first serve basis and you would post the character drafted for us to see? Or did I misintepret this?

I consider myself an expert in comics and anime/manga; i believe I could be your consultant for that.

I too, offer my services as a consultant, and as a judge. Is this mixed genre?

Pretty interesting thing. I already have some AMAZING ideas. Out out three characters I'm planning to draft two are obscure newcomers and only one was drafted once in Illadelph's tourney before.

In response to Jake, I feel like low herald would serve as the nicest compromise and would yield perhaps the most unknown characters of any tier after street and low meta.

Ultimately it's up to inmalist though.

Also: given that we're trying to embrace the kind of specialized niche knowledge that any one poster might not possess, could we consider making this a team tournament? Certainly two posters know more unknowns than a single poster and could better work to find a theme.

EDIT: Just saw your thoughts on teams after I wrote this, ini. Fair enough and generating interest is always an obstacle.

yeah man, i want a teammate also

i smell a win

Any idea when you're planning on running this inimalist?
I might be up for it but depends on the time due to exams and such 🙂
Interesting and concept with the themes and obscure characters though .

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Judging from the tourney discussion thread, I think Herald class characters would probably generate more interest. Instead of allowing High Heralds, though, if you wanted to keep things from going into who can draft the most powerful guys first, you could cap things off at Mid-Herald? At least that's my suggestion for the power cap.

my only real worry is that, the more powerful the limit, the more powerful the characters who can be snuck in above that, and the more likely we get into debates where "I crushed the universe first", "no, I did"...

I have no real problem with low-mid herald though, especially if that is what people want.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I assume we would PM you with our drafts in a first come, first serve basis and you would post the character drafted for us to see? Or did I misintepret this?

yes, exactly. There would be "draft threads" where people can discuss the choices, whether they are over the limits or whether they are "unused", etc.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I consider myself an expert in comics and anime/manga; i believe I could be your consultant for that.

ok, cool. That was sort of the issue I had with mixed genre dealt with

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I too, offer my services as a consultant, and as a judge. Is this mixed genre?

cool, I've got you as a judge/consultant. Yes, it is now mixed genre

Originally posted by Existere
In response to Jake, I feel like low herald would serve as the nicest compromise and would yield perhaps the most unknown characters of any tier after street and low meta.

Ultimately it's up to inmalist though.

no, it seems I am the one out of step with what people are looking for. Mid-Herald for now, as I see no real need to comprimise for lower characters if people don't want them. I might have to reconsider time/reality manip though... I do like having it in...

Originally posted by Existere
Also: given that we're trying to embrace the kind of specialized niche knowledge that any one poster might not possess, could we consider making this a team tournament? Certainly two posters know more unknowns than a single poster and could better work to find a theme.

EDIT: Just saw your thoughts on teams after I wrote this, ini. Fair enough and generating interest is always an obstacle.

I don't have anything against teams at all. I might try to work in some advantage for not having a team (maybe like 5 more min of prep, but that is hardly an advantage to someone already going theme/unknown...), but ultimately, I don't see a 2 v 1 as really lopsided, most posters here can handle their own in a debate.

How about this, teams are open for registration, and if your participation is dependant on a team, for sure, find a team and participate. Just keep in mind, that is less people who might be involved in total, and less chance we actually get this going.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah man, i want a teammate also

settled.

I'll try to revise the rules post shortly, maybe wait for a couple more people to weigh in.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Pretty interesting thing. I already have some AMAZING ideas. Out out three characters I'm planning to draft two are obscure newcomers and only one was drafted once in Illadelph's tourney before.

🙂 nice

I will mark you down as interested then

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Any idea when you're planning on running this inimalist?
I might be up for it but depends on the time due to exams and such 🙂
Interesting and concept with the themes and obscure characters though .

my goal is to try and strike while the iron is hot. People seem interested now, so asap pretty much.

I get exams and that, but until the real matches begin, the only effort required would be to come up with draft choices. Certainly not something that requires no effort, but it isn't a full tournament post. I'd hope drafts would take less than 2-3 weeks... oh god i hope....

yay.

we should get a list of interested participants and then someone should pm me to be their partner.

I've already got an interesting themed team with two newcomers planned. I don't think that this thing needs to be mixed genre cause that will be a damn cheap exploit of "never used in a tourney" - we only had a handful of ones on this level, and dude who drafts say Char Aznable, Amuro Ray and Lalah Sune as "psychic mobile suit pilots" team gets the insta-bonus for creativity and characters never drafted?

I think that shall be comics only, high meta stuff. That way the creativity bonuses will have more worth.

Sorry, but as the Russian joke goes "either you remove the cross or you put on the pants"
A tournament where mixed genre is allowed and extra prep time is given for the characters never drafted before gives a large advantage to mixed genre users - simply because there were what... three mixed genre tourneys to date, two on low meta cap and one unfinished.

Or an innovative idea that may remove concerns listed above. As the way for a bonus for new characters allow amalgams (1 never drafted one + 1 another character) but the overall power of amalgam may not exceed low herald (with the cap for single characters somewhere inbetween low herald-high meta)...

thats an excellent point actually...

how about, non-comic characters don't count toward individual "never used" bonuses, but you can still get the additional +5 min if all of your characters are never-used non-comic.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Or an innovative idea that may remove concerns listed above. As the way for a bonus for new characters allow amalgams (1 never drafted one + 1 another character) but the overall power of amalgam may not exceed low herald (with the cap for single characters somewhere inbetween low herald-high meta)...

I'm not a fan of amalgams, so I'd rather no go that direction

and selecting non-comic characters is definately in the spirit of the "use under-used characters", but I do see the logic in more popular non-comic characters still being "underused" when they really aren't...

but then, what about popular comic characters that might never have been used in a tournement?

hmmm..

Sounds pretty cool, then! Low-Mid Herald is the definite power cap then, then? I think Meta on up to Low/Mid Herald would be cool; I do agree High Heralds would bring in a bunch of the universal busting/wTF worthy feats, so I can live with excluding them. I'm game for participating in the tourny as a contestant, then. 👆

inimalist's Tournament

I will just continually update this post to reflect the current rules. Anything with a strike like this was removed since the most recent posting, and new items will be in red like this. After all edits I will put a small comment in square brackets [ ] explaining the change.

Ok, so this will be the thread to discuss and finalize the rules in my upcomming tournament! [just cleaning up] Let me know if there is anything I've missed, anything that seems like an easy exploit, or changes overall you think might improve the event. However, let me know soon, as this is one of the final times to change any of the rules.

Registration is open for participants and judges! Teams of up to 3 contestants are allowed. In a two contestant team, each member would have esclusive control over one character, decided during the prep post, with one character shared between the two. Three player teams have a single character assigned to each member.

Contestants:

- Charlotte DeBel
- JakeTheBank
- Existere (looking for partner)

Judges:

- TricksterPriest

Non-Comic Consultants:

- King Kandy
- TricksterPriest

The Draft:

No amalgams

Drafts will be one at a time

Each participant will draft 3 characters, high meta as the limit, sort of, Iron Man on a normal day level. But really, as ambiguous as that sounds, I don't want characters who push that limit too much 😖hifty: [rewriting]

Drafts will be done in 3 rounds, with each contestant selecting one low-mid herald level character through a PM to me in each round. For the limit, think a normal level Magneto showing. Choices will be first come, first serve basis, and all characters from one round must be settled before moving on to the next.

Players who miss draft deadlines loose all prep for one match per deadline missed.

Each round of drafts will be conducted in their own thread where everyone can agree or disagree on the character's acceptability under the power limits and if they are "never-used"

No characters who have attacks that would be unstoppable generally. Ala KK's tourney, a psychic or speedster attack is something you could reasonably expect and prepare for, an attack that is always 100% effective and lethal would not be allowed.

No characters who cannot be KO'd by a means generally available to most characters. Someone who is intangible to physical attacks, but still can be attacked by energy or other means is fine, someone who is only vulnerable to a rare magic item or some such, is not. A character who is unkillable would be fine so long as they can be KO'd reasonably

Time-Travel is not allowed in prep or in the battle. This includes travelling through realities. Other forms of travel are allowed, and objects may be brought from or retrieved during prep, however, any object that would make a character above the limits is banned.

All other forms of reality, time and probability manipulation are allowed, however, attacks using them directly would be banned from the tournament as they are unblockable for the vast majority of high meta level characters. However, rather than ban them completely, they are allowed. However, all abilities used by these powers must be shown in a scan. A time manipulator would not simply be allowed to manipulate time in any way you wanted, but only in ways they can be shown as manipulating it.

All forms of magic are allowed, with the above conditions applied. Dr. Strange must have cast a spell in a comic to use it.

Power duplication is allowed so long as the ensuring duplication would not amp a character above the limit. Multiple Man type abilities are allowed.

Unless someone is willing to help me judge the power-levels of anime or other types of characters, I can't allow them, I just don't know it well enough. [I've found a consultant or two]

I will be deferring to the opinions of King Kandy and TricksterPriest with regard to non-comic characters. I will still claim a final say in all matters, but for the most part, they will be informing how non-comic drafts go

Unlimited posting

For teams, members may only control the actions of their assigned character, or characters dubbed "shared". It would be reasonable for a player controlling Wolverine to say Colossus (controlled by their partner) throws him for a fast ball special, or vice versa (so long as posts made by the member controlling the other character don't contradict this, ie: colossus couldn't throw wolverine if he was already bear hugging another enemy). It wouldn't be ok for one member to describe the entire attack strategy used by the team.

“Spirit of the Law”

Prep

Prep is 5 min.

For teams, characters must be assigned to team members during this prep post. They may differ from match to match, but must be included here. Characters not assigned to either player or as "shared" may not be controlled by either.

For a two player team, one character is assigned to each player, one is designated "shared". For a three player team, all three characters are assigned to a single player. Solo players do not need to assign any characters to any categories.

All teams may only submit a single prep post, and it may be written by a single member, or by all members to any degree. This is the only time when one member of the team may control the actions of characters not assigned to them.

You can go anywhere, retrieve anything, with the above stipulations.

You are not specifically banned from interfering with the battlefield prior to the fight, you just will not be informed of the location of your match before the event begins.

During this period, you will have no knowledge of your opponents, and you can not interfere with the location they are in, even if you do know it.

Any type of prep that produces anything above the limits of the tournament is banned.

before the first match, usernames are not revealed for any team. Each contestant will not know who they are against in the first round until after the prep posts are revealed, however, they will know the roster of the opponent's team.

Themes: You have the option of choosing a theme. They could be a broad as something like "Avengers" or "Power Cosmic", but not just "cosmic" or "New York". When you sign up for the tourney, you pick a theme. For each character choice, give me, like literally, one sentence as to how it fits the theme, ie: Man-Thing is a plant, or a Mystic, or etc. I will accept even the most broad justifications for themes, again, I don't want to hinder people's creativity, however, there are benefits to picking a team. Depending on whether we want to do a round robin or just a straight tournament, the person whose characters best fit their team will get a bye or an automatic win in their points total. This will be determined by a vote everyone, inducing participants, can decide on. To ensure anonymity, after all draft choices are decided, themes and characters will be matched up for the vote, but usernames are never used. However, just choosing a theme in the first place will earn an additional 15 min of prep! This will be awarded to all players who choose 3 characters that fit a theme.

Under-used characters: so, I stole this idea directly from Psycho Gundam... I hope he doesn't mind... Basically the same idea, there is no "mandatory" use of new characters, however, each character on your team that has never been used in a tournament before gives you an additional 5 min of prep time, and if all of your characters have never been used, you get another additional 5 min. In total, any contestant who has 3 never used characters would get an additional 20 min of prep, and this would stack with the 15 from the theme. When you draft a character you think has never been used, you must inform me of this in the pm or it doesn't happen. I will post that this character is being drafted as “never-used”, and it is up to people to prove this wrong, the onus is not on the person drafting the character. This rule will be slightly modified for non-comic characters. Individual characters can still recieve a 5 min prep bonus, but only teams comprised entirely of comic book characters can recieve the additional 5 min team bonus. A team with non-comic characters can only recieve 15 min of prep through unique characters, whereas a team entirely of comic characters can be 20 min.

Just a final word on this last point. The reason for this is that, at least my interpretation of what PG was going for originally, was that he wanted characters that people had never used before, and anime and other types of characters meet that, therefore they should get the individual bonus to prep, but because it is probably easier to find 3 really good manga choices that have never been used, the final 5 min wouldn't be awarded. I'm considering changing this a little, because 5 min out of a potential 40 min prep time isn't a whole lot... but the fact that popular comic characters who just have always been overlooked for tournaments can also get these bonuses sort of cements this for me. If there are major objections to these rules, let them be known, but otherwise, this is how things are set!

- i

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8474873#post8474873

You seem to have a grasp on things, but there's that for reference. In particular, the loopholes and neutering sections have seemed the most helpful to past judges.

As always, I'm willing to lend my name to a tag-team while doing none of the actual work. Sadly, this is high meta where I'd have absurd amounts of fun, but time is my bane atm.

Put me down as a judge.

I feel we should ban or come down very hard on soul manipulation or spirit based attacks. It's a huge can of worms and possibly an "I-Win" button at this level.

We can let some in, sure, but it's a subject I personally am coming down like a sledgehammer on. Example, JJBA stands. If you draft one, I will smash you like a piledriver if you try to sneak in someone who's over the limit.

Though, with a low to mid herald limit, there's a ton of sneaky picks to be had, so have fun. 😉

Which tactics do you feel do you feel are too far? You don't have to make specific examples if you don't feel like outing specific characters right away, but what in general are you looking at?