Star Wars Battle of who's the bigger fanboy.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nope, both are heavy on the force and concentration. 🙂

You yourself noted a distinction!

Yeah, it's quite obvious what that is: one is using just force powers with their mind and the other is using force powers with and while moving their body.

I'll glady accept that concession now!

I'll give you another hint: you could not be more wrong. 🙂

Once again, which is why the true masters are the ones who typically use force on force combat while ordinary joe uses the saber!

K, I guess it makes sense that the weaker Jedi would rely on the more difficult use of the force, well at least in the so called "real" world.

Please quote me where I said Anakin or pre-suit Vader is greater tahn Sidious at everything.

🙂

Don't you love making it seem that I have stated things I have never said! It's just a great argumetn style!

But in case you were blind.
Me: Lol I'm not the one saying Anakin is greater than Sidious when everything points to the opposite.

No, sorry, that's no how it works. While you are stuck inside of la la land of fantasy, I'll be over here, in reality.

Oh... So our statments about said fictional universe are more accurate than the character themselves? Cool. I see how it works in the "real" world now.

And this only leads to another reason why you fail. The distinction was knowledge, not using the actual force. Yoda actively used the force non-stop while dueling Dooku, as did Dooku. How is this different than using the force intermittantly to TK shit? Oh, right: you're stuck in bias fantasy land where you cannot discern reality for fiction.

I'll let what you said answer this: " one is using just force powers with their mind and the other is using force powers with and while moving their body."

Good job and missing the point, yet again, on a pivotal moment in the films. 👆

The point is Anakin is superior to Dooku. But he is not superior in the force. Consider that Dooku was effortlessly able to defeat Kenobi through the force, but Anakin was able to merely match him in their force push contest.

The question has been answered already and you've admitted the most important element that supports what I'm saying.

You can do better at trolling: try harder.

I'm still waiting on the proof and not your clear bias. I'd like it soon, but I certainly don't expect it.

Originally posted by ares834
You yourself noted a distinction!

This is completely irrelevant to what I just stated.

Originally posted by ares834
I'll glady accept that concession now!

This is completely irrelevant to what I just stated.

"both are heavy on the force and concentration."

Originally posted by ares834
Once again, which is why the true masters are the ones who typically use force on force combat while ordinary joe uses the saber!

K, I guess it makes sense that the weaker Jedi would rely on the more difficult use of the force, well at least in the so called "real" world.

Here's where you're really making a fool of yourself. You admit that saber duels, which are not simply moving a blade around, are force intensive.

Please tell me all the force abilities being used in a high-level force duel.

Originally posted by ares834
Don't you love making it seem that I have stated things I have never said! It's just a great argumetn style!

But in case you were blind.
Me: Lol I'm not the one saying Anakin is greater than Sidious when everything points to the opposite.

Still a troll, eh?

"Please quote me where I said Anakin or pre-suit Vader is greater tahn Sidious at everything."

Originally posted by ares834
Oh... So our statments about said fictional universe are more accurate than the character themselves? Cool. I see how it works in the "real" world now.

You don't even know how to follow a proper conversation.

Please quote me where I said that my statements about fictional universe are more accurate than the character's themselves.

Let's recap:

You said:

"And yes, said fictional character would know more aboust said fictional world. I mean he only lives there and has merely studied the force his entire life. "

I said:

"No, sorry, that's no how it works. While you are stuck inside of la la land of fantasy, I'll be over here, in reality."

You saying, "So our statments about said fictional universe are more accurate than the character themselves? Cool. I see how it works in the "real" world now." is so puerile it's astounding (I'm lying, it's not astounding. I expect non sequitur statements like that from you.)

And, if you wanted to actually reply correctly, you would have said something like this: "You're right. I'm acting a fool stuck in a fantasy world. I knew all along that Chancellor Palpatine was Darth Sidious and the other characters didn't. I also knew that Anakin was being played for a fool by Palpatine. I also knew that the rebels were going to attack a very small weakness on the Death Star. I also knew that the rebels would disable the shields on the second death star to destroy it a second time. I also knew the Death Star was "armed and fully operational." I also knew that Anakin and Padme were having an affair and everyone else didn't (till Obi Wan.)" Etc. etc. etc.

While you make a strawman argument that makes you look stupid, I'll be over here knowing the Star Wars story and mythos a million times better than your sad warped perspective.

Originally posted by ares834
I'll let what you said answer this: " one is using just force powers with their mind and the other is using force powers with and while moving their body."

1. You're trolling.
2. You did not use that properly.
3. The question was answered by the prior statement and by the content of the question itself.
4. The question was rhetorical.
5. You fail.

Originally posted by ares834
The point is Anakin is superior to Dooku. But he is not superior in the force.

This right here shows a lack of understanding on what the force actually is.

What you actually need to say is this: "Dooku and Anakin have differing aptitudes with the force. Anakin, when focused, is superior in saber combat. He is also superior in using battle pre-cog for things like saber duels and piloting ships. Dooku is superior in his elemental use of the force such as force lightning. TK is debatable."

Instead, you like to make innacurate sweeping generalizations. This is why you fail.

Originally posted by ares834
Consider that Dooku was effortlessly able to defeat Kenobi through the force, but Anakin was able to merely match him in their force push contest.

Again, you severely lack an understanding of the force. TK is definitely NOT the only use of the force. Kindly suck it. And, yes, I realized that you had no idea what you were talking about and were confusing "TK" for "force ability" when there's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more uses of the force other than hand gestured TK.

Originally posted by ares834
I'm still waiting on the proof and not your clear bias. I'd like it soon, but I certainly don't expect it.

You will never get it because your own bias prevents you from seeing it.

Please, tell me all of the force powers or abilities used in a high-level lightsaber duel.

(Everything below, I'm actually being serious, for once. All the other stuff was more like a game. So read on with a different tone to my words.)

If you list those, then you'll definitely have your answer.

If you need to "phone a friend" because you're ignorant of the answer, there's no shame in that. I've swallowed my pride before to ask questions of others: there's no shame in ignorance; only willful ignorance.

Also, do none of Anakin's force feats from the Clone Wars film count? They should in the MVF unless the OP states otherwise.

Actually, Anakin WAS superior in the force.........

Dooku was by far the better swordsman, but Anakin was able to overwhelm him. Dooku is more precise and knowledgable in the force, but he couldnt use any of it due to a random Son-Of-A-Force attacking him.

Originally posted by Pwned
Actually, Anakin WAS superior in the force.........

Dooku was by far the better swordsman, but Anakin was able to overwhelm him. Dooku is more precise and knowledgable in the force, but he couldnt use any of it due to a random Son-Of-A-Force attacking him.

This is the same thing I held, a well.

However, discussions with my coworker and ares have me doubting that once held belief.

I could have sworn that Anakin had better TK feats than Dooku, did. Dooku has more knowledge, but not pure power in the force.

Also, I figured out why it was said by Lucas that Anakin could have won against Sids if he wasn't injured on Mustafar:

Yoda and Dooku fought. They were fairly evenly matched. Dooku fought Yoda to a stalemate. I would give Yoda the upperhand, but neither got a "victory" over the other. Technically, Dooku won because he escaped as he planned.

So, Yoda and Dooku are close in Saber Combat ability.

Fast forward to the Clone Wars film: Anakin and Dooku are even.

Fast forward to Episode III. Anakin, once he focuses and uses his power, easily defeats Dooku.

Compare this with Sidious and Yoda. Yoda, imo, got the better of Sidious in their Saber Duel because Yoda remarked that, despite his claims of "power" in the force, Sidious was still running from Yoda. Sidious eventually switched the fight to a pure force TK fight because Yoda was better.

What are the results? The original rankings of "9's" being given to Yoda, Sidious, and Anakin are acurate. They are all about the same level with Anakin probably getting the edge when he's focusing his rage in a more controlled manner. This is why George's claim that Anakin could have defeated Sidious HAD he NOT been injured, is accurate.

Anyway, Pwned, thanks for your insight. I knew I was forgetting something. 😄

Originally posted by dadudemon
Irrelevant garbage to make up for lack of proof.

I'll actually respond when you bring up something worth responding too. Or if you actually back up your claims.

Originally posted by ares834
I'll actually respond when you bring up something worth responding too. Or if you actually back up your claims.

There's something for you to respond to at the end of the post as it pretty much boils down to that.

Here it is, again:

"Please, tell me all of the force powers or abilities used in a high-level lightsaber duel."

Also concede, agree, or refute the claim that Anakin was superior to Dooku in the force just before he turned to the dark side. I'm interested to see how this ties into your thoughts on the mythos.

Originally posted by dadudemon
There's something for you to respond to at the end of the post as it pretty much boils down to that.

Here it is, again:

"Please, tell me all of the force powers or abilities used in a high-level lightsaber duel."

Precognition and force enhanced movements.

Also concede, agree, or refute the claim that Anakin was superior to Dooku in the force just before he turned to the dark side. I'm interested to see how this ties into your thoughts on the mythos.

Eh, hard to tell if just using the movies. Both were very skilled at using it, but in different ways. If I was forced to choose I would probably say that he was superior. Yes.

Originally posted by ares834
Precognition and force enhanced movements.

That's not everything: there are other force powers (plural) being used during saber duels. If we can get on the same page in this particular point, our arguments are pretty much null as we would have achieved a middle ground.

Originally posted by ares834
Eh, hard to tell if just using the movies. Both were very skilled at using it, but in different ways. If I was forced to choose I would probably say that he was superior. Yes.

I would say that the "in-universe" characters would give Anakin the nod.

Outside the universe, I agree that it's difficult to say because we have to adhere to this stupid think called logic. 😄

Wait... in the movies, what Force powers are being used during the saber duels? Precognition and enhanced movement sure, but what else is there? Occasionally they stop swinging their sword and throw out a Force push or some Lightning, but actually during all the swinging and deflecting, what else is there?

Nothing, the occasional TK of objects.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Wait... in the movies, what Force powers are being used during the saber duels? Precognition and enhanced movement sure, but what else is there? Occasionally they stop swinging their sword and throw out a Force push or some Lightning, but actually during all the swinging and deflecting, what else is there?

No, that's what I was talking about. I do not consider "stopping" to use force TK or lightning as not part of the duel. If TK/lightning/mind reading is not part of the duel, then breathing isn't either.

They also try to read minds.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, that's what I was talking about. I do not consider "stopping" to use force TK or lightning as not part of the duel. If TK/lightning/mind reading is not part of the duel, then breathing isn't either.

They also try to read minds.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Because they have stop swinging the swords to throw out a Force attack/defense, I would say that the saber duel and the Force duel are two different components of the same conflict. I would never consider Anakin the superior duelist if he kept beating people with his Force attacks. Same with Sidious and his Lightning. Nor would I consider Dooku a superior Force attacker if he kept beating people with his saber skills. It wasn't his mastery of Force pushing or Lightning that broke through Anakin's defense and lopped off his arm.

Since they are integral to saber duels, its part of the duel.

Remove punching, mind reading, kicking, strategic use of TK, battle precog, etc. and it is not longer a STAR WARS saber duel. Make stipulations about what can and cannot be part of a saber duel when they were definitely part of the duel, then it ceases to be a Star Wars saber duel: it becomes a fan's definition of what constitutes a saber duel.

To say that certain moments in a saber duel do not count and others do, is arbitrary and illogical. If they use it to win the duel, it's part of a duel.

It's like removing all objects, weapons, tools from John McClane and only allowing him to use his Beretta.

There's my SWVF mentality shining through again. There, saber skills and Force prowess are two different things.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
There's my SWVF mentality shining through again. There, saber skills and Force prowess are two different things.

Saber skills are definitely not even close to being mutually exclusive to the force. In fact, you cannot be adept at it unless you are using the force.

The exception is Grievous who had speed, strength enhancements, and saber combat training, that could easily overwhelm even a Jedi Master. He was originally supposed to be a droid. 🙁

No, there were people who were not force sensitive who used sabers, and who taught themself. You dont need the Force to be able to fight with a lightsaber, but you do need it to fight force users.

Originally posted by Pwned
You dont need the Force to be able to fight with a lightsaber, but you do need it to fight force users.

General Greivous begs to differ.

Ok, let me rephrase. You need the Froce to fight Force users if you are a normal being. Cyborgs ment to be able to fight Jedi are alright though.

Thats what I ment in the first place.

Originally posted by Pwned
Ok, let me rephrase. You need the Froce to fight Force users if you are a normal being. Cyborgs ment to be able to fight Jedi are alright though.

Thats what I ment in the first place.

Yeah, you pretty much just restated what I stated. 😄

No. I stated my opinion which in no way aligns itself with yours, by my own statement.

Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.