Wonder Woman vs Beta Ray Bill

Started by JakeTheBank10 pages

Originally posted by Philosophía
His 'planet-shattering striking power', for one. He destroyed what was, arguably a moon, while having an immense momentum and surrounded in blazing energy. That doesn't translate into "I can swing my hammer with planet-destructing force from a standing position into battle". Next, against Asteroth, he destroyed what was now obviously a planet - but this time he needed Stardust helping him, getting to the core of the planet, and it had nothing to do with his actual physical planet destructive force - since it's obvious the explosion was produced by the energy in the core. This explosion knocked him out aswell.

I mean, it was a cosmic-level fight, and quite awesome to see - but most of that comic is blown out of proportion, feat-wise.

What do you mean?

Fair enough.

Do you see Diana taking a slim majority against Bill (ie. a tough fight for her) or a massive majority against Bill?

The lasso has also effected high end mystic deities, though, such as Ares, Circe, and Hecate and has also effected Darkseid. Granted you have instances of it not working or people resisting, but for the most part, the people who have shown resistence or outright immunity either have no souls to manipulate/peer into are constructs of some kind or through weird plot device/PIS (Deathstroke) are "immune" to the truth and how it pertains to them.

I do think that while Bill wins this, is he's successfully encircled by the lasso, he's likely out of this match should Diana use its abilities against him.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fair enough.

Do you see Diana taking a slim majority against Bill (ie. a tough fight for her) or a massive majority against Bill?

Definitely a tough fight.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bill for the majority. Diana's defenses will be tough for Bill to intially overcome, but his versatility and power will pull through in the end.
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Originally posted by JakeTheBank
She's helped towed Earth and the moon before, both with help and as such it's next to impossible to determine how much she contributed outside of "a lot of weight". She's helped lifted the Spectre who was described as weighing "eternity", which again, is unquantifiable, albeit a good feat of strength. These feats in of themselves don't put her beyond Bill in terms of strength, not based on his own feats and who he has matched or stalemated in pure strength (ie. Thor).

And while there are certainly posters who do dislike Superman for being "uber" or because he's DC, it's not a majority, and for every diehard anti-DC poster you have, there's an equally overzealous DC supporter. Which is why bringing up company bias is really irrelevant because we all know there's enough to go around, Marvel or DC. As someone who reads comics from both companies, Superman included, it's really tiring to hear this "Oh, there's some kind of KMC anti-Superman/DC movement" style of argument (not accusing you of saying this, btw) and attempting to paint the overall vibe of the forums as some place that holds some irrational grudge against the character and company he represents, when in reality, it's a handful of posters. And in the same breath, conviently ignoring or refusing to point out the sheer ludicrous of people who believe Superman solos Galactus or that he'll operate and use his speeds at levels never shown in comics and to argue otherwise is "hating Superman/DC." Case in point, there's zealots and biased and self-righteous posters representing both companies and whomever their favorite characters are. Thor, Hulk, Surfer, Superman, Flash, Green Lanterns, etc. It's everywhere.

Which of WW's strength feats surpass Thor? And even if she did have them, it's certainly not the norm, not based on her character.

Based on what is Diana going to hit someone a hundred times a second, much less anywhere close to lightspeed? Has she ever displayed this kind of speed or tactic in a comic book? If so, please, show me or tell me the issue; I'd genuinely appreciate it if Diana has done this. Further more, you're assuming, I don't know, Bill stands there and lets such a thing happen to him, which is pretty much downplaying him. It's debatable than Diana even possesses planetary striking power based on her feats - we can make guesses, but prove it? - whereas Bill does. Diana will block several of his attacks, sure, but he's going to hit here, either though melee, a hammer toss (which can go FTL as well as home on an opponent), massive AoE style attacks, BFRing to a realm/environment of his choosing, etc.

I believe what I'm saying because I've actually read an extraordinary amount of Wonder Woman comics and I'm pretty sure I have a pretty damn good handle on the character, and the idea she walks all over Bill for a massive majority is pretty unfounded.

Bill has far too many options for Diana to overcome with her advantages for the majority here.

See this is where we disagree, In Spirit.

A dumb character wouldn't do a certain tactic only because they are that dumb.
A smart character wouldn't do an easy to know tactic in a comic only because it would go against the plot, not because they are dumb or it isn't in their character. There is nothing in Superman's or WW's character mind to tell him that he/she shouldn't use super speed to win the fight if they thought it was necessary. They don't always use it IN COMICS because the writer controls them not to use it. If Superman or WW was a real living being and knew what he/she can do and had the actual intelligence he/she is portrayed to have in comics then there is no reason he/she wouldn't use speed, if he/she deemed it was necessary.

Bill doesn't know WW but WW knows Bill (because she knows Thor). WW is not dumb. If she were alive and existed then their would be no reason for her to not use her speed, knowing how powerful Bill is.

So for the billionth time, this is not about what will happen in a comic (where writer's job characters and create contradictions). This is about what will happen if the characters ACTUALLY EXISTED and they used REAL intelligence based off their actual portrayed intelligence from comics. That means Superman will fight and think like a gifted human, WW would fight and think like a gifted human as well. They will not fight like morons and not use speed on purpose and get their butts whipped. That would make no sense.

Lastly, there is no way to connect D.C. characters to Marvel characters other than natural feats (feats where the character perform against objects such as planets, tanks, etc.). This is the only way we know who is stronger. IMO, WW is not less than 1/3 of the strength of Superman. Even with 1/10 of Superman's strength she has proven to have planetary power. Both Bill and Diana can hurt each other, that is a fact. But for Bill to even have a chance to strike her he must use quick jab like strikes which are far weaker than pure slams. Thus his blows would be equal or less than the blows she would have on him. Putting skill and speed into play, she would definitely hit him more times and thus providing us with the outcome (she wins). Adding in the fact that she has several one shot options makes this fight almost a stomp in her favor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And while there are certainly posters who do dislike Superman for being "uber" or because he's DC, it's not a majority, and for every diehard anti-DC poster you have, there's an equally overzealous DC supporter. Which is why bringing up company bias is really irrelevant because we all know there's enough to go around, Marvel or DC. As someone who reads comics from both companies, Superman included, it's really tiring to hear this "Oh, there's some kind of KMC anti-Superman/DC movement" style of argument (not accusing you of saying this, btw) and attempting to paint the overall vibe of the forums as some place that holds some irrational grudge against the character and company he represents, when in reality, it's a handful of posters. And in the same breath, conviently ignoring or refusing to point out the sheer ludicrous of people who believe Superman solos Galactus or that he'll operate and use his speeds at levels never shown in comics and to argue otherwise is "hating Superman/DC." Case in point, there's zealots and biased and self-righteous posters representing both companies and whomever their favorite characters are. Thor, Hulk, Surfer, Superman, Flash, Green Lanterns, etc. It's everywhere.

there is a bigger Pro Marvel/Anti DC movement than the opposite on this forum, though. Is it all posters? No, of course not, and there is an anti-Marvel movement too. It's not as if both sides are equal, though.

Also, anyone saying Superman would take Galactus is an idiot.

Badabing and I have a list of people as long as my arm that we plan to get rid of at some point, and when we look at the reasons why, it's generally over-zealous, trolly Marvel bias or just plain ignorance for a good portion of them rather than the opposite.

Originally posted by -Pr-
there is a bigger Pro Marvel/Anti DC movement than the opposite on this forum, though. Is it all posters? No, of course not, and there is an anti-Marvel movement too. It's not as if both sides are equal, though.
I don't agree with statement personally.

I think its roughly equal.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't agree with statement personally.

I think its roughly equal.

That's just because Trick is louder than most people.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's just because Trick is louder than most people.
He is very vocal, very very very vocal.

Originally posted by Newjak
He is very vocal, very very very vocal.

That he is. He's a lot more obvious about it than most people.

Honestly, if we're talking about people who will represent "their" character even illogically at times, sure, those are pretty close. But actual "i hate x character and want him to lose" comes more from the Marvel side than the DC one, imo.

Superman isn't the only one, but he seems to be the most common example.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, if we're talking about people who will represent "their" character even illogically at times, sure, those are pretty close. But actual "i hate x character and want him to lose" comes more from the Marvel side than the DC one, imo.
That's a very important distinction.

Originally posted by carver9
Damn, I sure did. I meant to say Heralds... (typing fast). An argument can be made that Bolt and Binary are high heralds.

I don't think the Binary argument necessarily holds herald level weight.

Mid herald I might concede to.

Originally posted by googleme
That is a good feat. How heavy is Asgard? Is it more heavy than the Moon? Or Earth? Or the Spectre?

Pretty sure it was said that the Spectre has an unlimited mass.

Originally posted by Konton
I don't think the Binary argument necessarily holds herald level weight.

Mid herald I might concede to.

I agree with this but she does have high Herald feats.

Originally posted by SquallX
Pretty sure it was said that the Spectre has an unlimited mass.

Mass does not quantify weight unlimited or not. A truck load of feathers while massive are still just feathers, while a truck load of lead... you get the picture.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That he is. He's a lot more obvious about it than most people.

Honestly, if we're talking about people who will represent "their" character even illogically at times, sure, those are pretty close. But actual "i hate x character and want him to lose" comes more from the Marvel side than the DC one, imo.

Superman isn't the only one, but he seems to be the most common example.

That's how these boards gets hits. gotta keep things interesting... many are "not really" biased, but I believe one tends to side with what they are more familiar with (being a fan). if it was all dull and grey, the boards would be borin... in the end, it's wut keeps things rollin along... more interest, more fun, more arguments, more drama..

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That's how these boards gets hits. gotta keep things interesting... many are "not really" biased, but I believe one tends to side with what they are more familiar with (being a fan). if it was all dull and grey, the boards would be borin... in the end, it's wut keeps things rollin along... more interest, more fun, more arguments, more drama..

Why do you think half the people that are on this board haven't been banned yet? 😛

Originally posted by Stoic
Mass does not quantify weight unlimited or not. A truck load of feathers while massive are still just feathers, while a truck load of lead... you get the picture.
Feathers still have mass. And an infinite amount of them still weight infinity.

I can't belive you're this dumb. Hi there, Captain Stoic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why do you think half the people that are on this board haven't been banned yet? 😛

😮

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
😮

Don't worry, you're not included... Yet.