Graviton vs Superman

Started by Rage.Of.Olympus6 pages
Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member
Originally posted by dmills
Clearly Philo is of the opinion that JLA/Avengers is not only canon, but unequivocally so. What's your angle on jla/avengers?

Not entirely sure. Do the events of DC vs. Marvel still apply? I'd wager there's a greater chance of it being cannon in the DCU.

I just hope he has more evidence other than it's been referenced in handbooks to support his stance.

To be honest, I think initially it was intended to be a self contained story which is why we had the non current line ups or what have you. Basically Busiek's take on the two worlds. At least that's what my theory.

SamZED Senior Member

Originally posted by Philosophía
Because everybody knows that story is in continuity and the writers are still aggresivly harrassed?
Dont really care why it was written the way it was, same with Supes/Thor fight. But suggesting that the fight was accurate and had both characters fight to their fullest abilities is plain false and doesnt make any more sense than using the Venom fight as an argument on who would win between the two. Thor may not be supes equel in say durability, but they're very very close and Thor has some advantages over Supes even.

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by SamZED
But suggesting that the fight was accurate and had both characters fight to their fullest abilities is plain false
You're confusing forum fights with comic fights. Just because Superman isn't shown using his speed at its fullest, or Thor doesn't start using some of his more exotic abilities, doesn't make the fight invalid - otherwise we'd dismiss 99.9% of the fights in comics. 🙂

Allankles Kwisatz Haderach
Originally posted by SamZED
Is it safe to say say Venom > Superman then?

Problem with using Venom vs Superman in the anti-crossover argument is that Venom isn't on Supes level. Basically, no one takes that little incident seriously. JLA/Avengers is a different matter, it was written by a writer who knows Thor and Supes intimately and had worked on both characters in their titles.

SamZED Senior Member

Originally posted by Philosophía
You're confusing forum fights with comic fights. Just because Superman isn't shown using his speed at its fullest, or Thor doesn't start using some of his more exotic abilities, doesn't make the fight invalid - otherwise we'd dismiss 99.9% of the fights in comics. 🙂
Agreed. There's a difference. But even for a comicbook fight, I honestly do not believe Thor's strength/durability were portrait accurately compared to Superman's. I mean the getting oneshotted part.

SamZED Senior Member

Originally posted by Allankles
Problem with using Venom vs Superman in the anti-crossover argument is that Venom isn't on Supes level. Basically, no one takes that little incident seriously. JLA/Avengers is a different matter, it was written by a writer who knows Thor and Supes intimately and had worked on both characters in their titles.
There's a simillar problem with Supes/Thor fight imo. In order to do what Supes did he'd have to be leagues above Thor, which going by standart showings he isnt.

Allankles Kwisatz Haderach

I think what people underestimate with that fight is the heat vision bombardment Supes gave Thor, which actually damaged him significantly.

If Thor had known how deadly Supes HV is (even without trying to kill his opponent with it) he'd have blocked it with Mjlonir and the fight would have been much closer.

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member

Superman didn't one shot Thor. He punched Thor 3 times and unleashed his heat vision. Thor punched Superman once, and I guess knocked him off his feet with another blow.

The fight just couldn't get more panel time in such a crossover. Assume it happened mostly off panel if it makes more sense that way.

Thor wouldn't go down that easily nor would Superman be so completely exhausted that fast. He could have dedicated the entire issue to them fighting but it wasn't very logical. Hence it was brief, but intense a fight between near equals. Superman even admitted he just barely beat Thor. Based on JLA/Avengers as a whole, Superman has the edge in strength and is faster with Thor being more powerful as well as versatile.

Originally posted by Allankles
Problem with using Venom vs Superman in the anti-crossover argument is that Venom isn't on Supes level. Basically, no one takes that little incident seriously. JLA/Avengers is a different matter, it was written by a writer who knows Thor and Supes intimately and had worked on both characters in their titles.

Lol?

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman didn't one shot Thor. He punched Thor 3 times and unleashed his heat vision. Thor punched Superman once, and I guess knocked him off his feet with another blow.

The fight just couldn't get more panel time in such a crossover. Assume it happened mostly off panel if it makes more sense that way.

Thor wouldn't go down that easily nor would Superman be so completely exhausted that fast. He could have dedicated the entire issue to them fighting but it wasn't very logical. Hence it was brief, but intense a fight between near equals. Superman even admitted he just barely beat Thor. Based on JLA/Avengers as a whole, Superman has the edge in strength and is faster with Thor being more powerful as well as versatile.

Lol?

What's the lol? Busiek wrote Avengers for several years, then went on to write JLA for a decent period as well. That's the timeframe the story was written in.

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member
Originally posted by Juntai
What's the lol? Busiek wrote Avengers for several years, then went on to write JLA for a decent period as well. That's the timeframe the story was written in.

On Busiek having intimate knowledge on Thor and writing his title.

Horrible characterization at times and power levels? Well, losing to Superman is probably Busiek Thor's best feat I'd say.

Most writers found a balance for Thor. What he lacks in one category, they have him make up in an another. Busiek simply wrote Thor on a lower level across the board. I think he thinks, that makes for a better story. I don't know.

What's even more insulting is he thinks Quasar and Sersi are too powerful for something like the Avengers but having Thor's fine.

PillarofOsiris Senior Member

Graviton is Marvel and Superman is DC, therefore, according to most posters on this site, Graviton wins.

PillarofOsiris Senior Member
Originally posted by carver9
This match isn't going to turn out to good for Supes. I wonder who would win out of Graviton and Magneto.

lol. I hope you don't really think Magneto is more powerful than Superman.

Sr J-Bieb Dead

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Graviton is Marvel and Superman is DC, therefore, Superman wins easily
fixed

JakeTheBank Return of the King
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Graviton is Marvel and Superman is DC, therefore, according to most posters on this site, Graviton wins.

Can you define "most posters"?

PillarofMight Restricted

.

CosmicComet Senior Member
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Graviton is Marvel and Superman is DC, therefore, according to most posters on this site, Graviton wins.

Seriously?

Zack Fair Fanboy

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman didn't one shot Thor. He punched Thor 3 times and unleashed his heat vision. Thor punched Superman once, and I guess knocked him off his feet with another blow.

The fight just couldn't get more panel time in such a crossover. Assume it happened mostly off panel if it makes more sense that way.

Thor wouldn't go down that easily nor would Superman be so completely exhausted that fast. He could have dedicated the entire issue to them fighting but it wasn't very logical. Hence it was brief, but intense a fight between near equals. Superman even admitted he just barely beat Thor. Based on JLA/Avengers as a whole, Superman has the edge in strength and is faster with Thor being more powerful as well as versatile.

👆👆

dmills Centurion Prime

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Graviton is Marvel and Superman is DC, therefore, according to most posters on this site, Graviton wins.
Man you've got to be kidding me with that.

PillarofOsiris Senior Member
Originally posted by SamZED
Is it safe to say say Venom > Superman then?

Yeah, except Superman was losing his powers at the time from FINAL NIGHT when they fought.

Sr J-Bieb Dead
Originally posted by SamZED
Is it safe to say say Venom > Superman then?
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Yeah