right, but book supplements the movie: I was actually looking for some evidence showing a struggle.. that would have helped you. I found none.
There are plenty of places in the mythos where Yoda moves more, so evidence is mounting against an appearance of a struggle. (especially since it doesn't really appear that he is struggling.)
1. Was my embedded youtube video not good enough for you that you had to post your own? Are you telling me that I'm dealing with a youtube video snob here, truejedi? Is that what you're telling me?
2. The question of whether he hesitated or whether there was a pause in his motions is entirely irrelevant. What is relevant is whether a signficant degree of effort was demonstrated once he took action and actively applied his power, something you still haven't at all addressed in a precise and exact manner.
3. Another incredibly inept observation on your part. I expanded on the points I made and explained them in further detail because apparently it wasn't clear enough for everyone the first time. I did not just repeat my position without adding anything new; conversely, neither did you.
Originally posted by truejedi
Pg. 349, AOTC: "Yoda grabbed the crane and hed it fast, but in doing so, he had to release Dooku. The Count wasted no time, sprinting away, leaping up the ramp to his sail ship. As Yoda began to move the fallen crane harmlessly aside, the sail ship's engine roared to life, and all three Jedi watched helplessly as Count Dooku blasted away."Where is the struggle?
That the novel doesn't elaborate in such a manner that is indicative of it being a struggle does not mean that it deifnitely wasn't, particularly when another source does "elaborate" in such a manner that gives such an indication.
Originally posted by truejedi
Yoda is humanoid?
As far as the elements of his face that would determine his expression, yes.
You can see Yoda making those faces while WALKING in various places in the trilogy.
Which also happens to be a tremendous effort for him when he's not using the Force to assist him, considering the state of his physical body. So, you've managed to point out that he makes the same facial expression during another action that would require a huge effort on his part to somehow discredit my claim that the facial expression denotes a tremendous effort. Good job.
Dude's a cripple, doesn't mean you have to dismiss him as weak. The entire thing, grabbing the pillar, stopping its fall, moving it to safety, takes a total of: 20 seconds. how is that a struggle?
"Struggle" is a relative term, but given the telekinetic feats we've seen him do outside of the movies, the effort it denotes does not seem at all realistic if we assume that his other showings are a reliable reflection of how he actually is.
If his arms were shaking, that is one thing, but his aren't,
Yes they are.
he is merely moving them.
Rapidly in an irregular manner across minimal distances, i.e. "shaking".
Closing his eyes? He does that every time he uses the force.
Nobody mentioned closing his eyes.
Originally posted by Nephthys
To be fair, he does seem like he was stuggling to me too as well. He looks like he's shaking through most of it.
To be fair, I don’t see the struggle you are talking about.
Really, this boils down to the personal interpretation of the event.
Besides, two decades later in ESB Yoda levitates X-Wing with ease, but all of a sudden he struggles with a pillar? I simply don’t buy it.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Damn ppl! Don't compare a novelized feat to a movie feat. Apples to oranges. At least compare Yoda's T-canon showings to Bane's (and others) C-canon showings.
In CWC Yoda TKs two landing crafts with ridiculous ease.
IMO that feat is one of the most impressive display of TK in the mythos.
so anyway Neb, does that answer your question about my take on the subject? I just don't buy a "struggle" Especially with the mountain of evidence from the movies and other EU showing that he wouldn't struggle in such a situation. You are clearly seeing something from that AOTC scene that I'm not. even if you WERE right, and I was wrong, which i'm not admitting by any means, I would call it an aberration, and not a norm, or else easily explained because he was exhausted after fighting dooku...
Everything I've referred to from the video is there to be seen, and it all is highly suggestive of an immense effort being taken. Given that he gives similar demonstrations throughout the movies, such as his telekinetic battle with Sidious, it's hardly an anomalous demonstration, either. Regarding his lifting of the X-Wing in ESB that people have brought up, not only is the X-Wing in all likelihood not as heavy as the giant crane, but Yoda doesn't do that in a particularly timely fashion either, and there's certainly nothing to suggest that it was done in an effortless manner. Given that Yoda was not being depicted by visual effects either meant that it wasn't realistically possible for him to be as expressive as would otherwise denote such an expenditure of effort as he was in AotC.
The fact of the matter remains that it has long been established that the Expanded Universe doesn't paint a neccessarily reliable picture of Star Wars canon, and that the best way to determine how reliable it is on a case by case basis is to first and foremost see how it fits in with sources of higher forms of canon, as well as the majority of sources and the most recent of sources. In this particular case, stuff like Yoda smashing those two landing carriers together does not at all fit in realistically and reasonably with the movies' depiction of his abilities. You are not technically in a position to assert that anything from the Expanded Universe is a necessarily true reflection of Star Wars canon, and in this case the means by which we could argue as much do not in any way favour your position.
The only "effort" it took from Yoda was stopping the pillar's fall. Holding the pillar in mid-air was not a problem for Yoda at all. In fact, Yoda seemed calm once he had the pillar levitating after he stopped it's fall.
It wasn't so much that the pillar was too heavy for Yoda to lift. The effort could have came from the sudden surprise and speed in which Dooku toppled it.
Besides, we see Yoda lift an X-wing out of a swamp with ease in ESB, and even overpower Palpatine (who was strong enough to levitate and rip many senate pods from durasteel restraints) with a force push.
Originally posted by Iden Enserath
Everything I've referred to from the video is there to be seen, and it all is highly suggestive of an immense effort being taken. Given that he gives similar demonstrations throughout the movies, such as his telekinetic battle with Sidious, it's hardly an anomalous demonstration, either. Regarding his lifting of the X-Wing in ESB that people have brought up, not only is the X-Wing in all likelihood not as heavy as the giant crane, but Yoda doesn't do that in a particularly timely fashion either, and there's certainly nothing to suggest that it was done in an effortless manner. Given that Yoda was not being depicted by visual effects either meant that it wasn't realistically possible for him to be as expressive as would otherwise denote such an expenditure of effort as he was in AotC.The fact of the matter remains that it has long been established that the Expanded Universe doesn't paint a neccessarily reliable picture of Star Wars canon, and that the best way to determine how reliable it is on a case by case basis is to first and foremost see how it fits in with sources of higher forms of canon, as well as the majority of sources and the most recent of sources. In this particular case, stuff like Yoda smashing those two landing carriers together does not at all fit in realistically and reasonably with the movies' depiction of his abilities. You are not technically in a position to assert that anything from the Expanded Universe is a necessarily true reflection of Star Wars canon, and in this case the means by which we could argue as much do not in any way favour your position.
everything suggests the feat with the xwing AND with sidious was pretty effortless..... I'm really thinking you are seeing what you WANT to see there.... A little projection, if you will.
Be careful too, because if Yoda smashing landing craft together, is "completely out of the scope of canon" than equally so is Nihilus moving a star destroyer...
Leland Chee has already explained that, at least in the case of movement, there is no contradiction between what we see in the EU and the films. Furthermore, George Lucas was heavily involved in the production of The Force Unleashed and its sequels. In addition, he was the mastermind of both Clone Wars television series. Nai produced a quote from Lucas's commentary in the 2003, where Lucas claims that the displays of power therein were consistent with how he imaged "real Jedi" acting. As far as the 2008- series, Lucas has been identified as the man in charge of all episode concepts, and all ideas must be approved by him.
He's fickle, but even the movies are subservient to Lucas's wishes. And if those wishes are manifest in lesser canon, then so be it.
I thought I was sure but your presence here has filled me with a deep sense of dread at the idea that I may have overlooked something, so, not entirely sure? In all seriousness though nothing else would appear to conflict with the evidence in the video that's heavily suggestive of substantial effort, and with regards to being exhausted to such an extent from his duel with Dooku, the idea that a brief Force engagement and a minute long lightsaber duel left him in such a state of exhaustion, regardless of how Force-intensive Yoda's lightsaber style is, doesn't sound entirely realistic given we've seen him fight at much greater lengths and not display any real sign of exhaustion afterwards, not to mention the fact that the EU feats in question that I've referred to have themselves often occured after he's been in battle at even greater lengths, such as when he smashed the two landing carriers together which occured after he'd been fighting through hordes of enemies for a large duration of time.
If I may break in, but I find it interesting that you would say that:
Originally posted by Iden Enserath
In all seriousness though nothing else would appear to conflict with the evidence in the video that's heavily suggestive of substantial effort,
It seems as if you are trying to profess your interpretation of an event as an indisputable fact.
It was already pointed out that the novel completes the picture of that fight, and that it nowhere states that Yoda had difficulty with TK-ing that pillar.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
If I may break in, but I find it interesting that you would say that:It seems as if you are trying to profess your interpretation of an event as an indisputable fact.
For the benefit of the mentally handicapped:
"In all seriousness though nothing else would appear to conflict with the evidence in the video that's heavily suggestive of substantial effort,"
It was already pointed out that the novel completes the picture of that fight, and that it nowhere states that Yoda had difficulty with TK-ing that pillar.
Pg. 349, AOTC: "Yoda grabbed the crane and hed it fast, but in doing so, he had to release Dooku. The Count wasted no time, sprinting away, leaping up the ramp to his sail ship. As Yoda began to move the fallen crane harmlessly aside, the sail ship's engine roared to life, and all three Jedi watched helplessly as Count Dooku blasted away."
As can be seen, not only does the novel not go into perfect detail of the segment of the fight in question, but it goes into even less detail than can be visually ascertained from the source that was already being used.
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"That the novel doesn't elaborate in such a manner that is indicative of it being a struggle does not mean that it definitely wasn't, particularly when another source does "elaborate" in such a manner that gives such an indication."
Originally posted by Iden Enserath
"In all seriousness though nothing else would appear to conflict with the evidence in the video that's heavily suggestive of substantial effort,"
Ok, so how does it heavily suggest that?
I understand it may be the case for you, but not for everyone. It’s up to interpretation.
As can be seen, not only does the novel not go into perfect detail of the segment of the fight in question, but it goes into even less detail than can be visually ascertained from the source that was already being used.
Again, it’s just your personal opinion. You ascertain this from video. Good for you, I guess.
"That the novel doesn't elaborate in such a manner that is indicative of it being a struggle does not mean that it definitely wasn't, particularly when another source does "elaborate" in such a manner that gives such an indication."
Well, again see above.
I see no such indication.