I'd estimate about 60 tonnes myself. Does anybody know of what metal/of what probable metal/of what probable density the crain was made of?
Regardless, it's not a question of "looking down upon" Yoda struggling with moving the crain, but a question of how reliable his EU demonstrations where he performs astronomically greater feats are in light of the aforementioned demonstration, which would appear to be inconsistent with the picture the movies paint of his abilities.
Not to mention, with respect to the higher end levels of telekinesis/Force Powers in general that we've seen in the mythos, it is a particularly pathetic display of power. We've seen Force Users enter the realm of planets and things such as wormholes, supernovae and black holes with their powers. Manipulating an object that weighs approximately 100 tonnes would be incredibly mild in comparison, wouldn't you say?
I'd estimate about 60 tonnes myself. Does anybody know of what metal/of what probable metal/of what probable density the crain was made of?
All I know is that SW metals are tens of thousands of times stronger than steel (Durasteel is something like 300,000 x stronger). I dunno if that makes them heavier or whathaveyou, but thats all I got.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Ok, so how does it heavily suggest that?
I understand it may be the case for you, but not for everyone. It’s up to interpretation.Again, it’s just your personal opinion. You ascertain this from video. Good for you, I guess.
Well, again see above.
I see no such indication.
No, it is MY analysis of his manner with respect to how effort is generally visually demonstrated by a person, both in actuality, and as far as how the director would choose to convey that, versus YOUR claim that it doesn't look like a struggle to YOU coupled with an incredibly inept observation on your part.
The physical response on his part heavily indicates that a struggle was taking place due to the irregularity of it with respect to his usual movements and manner in say, a resting state, not to mention the fact that it's heavily emblematic of how a struggle would generally be depicted, and is generally demonstrated. The amount of time that it took is heavily indicative that a struggle was taking place due to the fact that his priority, by all available evidence and reason, would be to catch up with Dooku and he would realistically perform the action as quickly as possible to maximise the possibility that he would be able to meet his objective.
Your observation that he was calm conflicts with the manner of his facial expression, both with respect to how it usually is in times of calm, and with how the director would choose to depict it if he wanted to make it look at all realistic with respect to how humanoid individuals generally express a state of calm, which by all available evidence is exactly how he generally has the character express himself.
Everything I've referred to from the video is there to be seen, and it all is highly suggestive of an immense effort being taken.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Leland Chee has already explained that, at least in the case of movement, there is no contradiction between what we see in the EU and the films.
Wow just realised I like totally posted on that same page... 😐
Originally posted by Iden Enserath
Not to mention, with respect to the higher end levels of telekinesis/Force Powers in general that we've seen in the mythos, it is a particularly pathetic display of power. We've seen Force Users enter the realm of planets and things such as wormholes, supernovae and black holes with their powers. Manipulating an object that weighs approximately 100 tonnes would be incredibly mild in comparison, wouldn't you say?
Not at all. Sure some have it beat. But very few have. Consdier your own examples, Sidious is the only known Sith capable of creating worm-holes. The Supernova are created through the use of an artifact, and when artifacts are removed from said Sith they resoprt to throwing bircks at one another. And Luke and Kyp are the only ones shpwn capable of manipulating black holes because they arebeasts in the force, I'd also throw Starkiller up there as well.
Ultiamtely there are very few Jedi/Sith who have shown powers that greatly eclipse said feat.
Regardless, it's not a question of "looking down upon" Yoda struggling with moving the crain, but a question of how reliable his EU demonstrations where he performs astronomically greater feats are in light of the aforementioned demonstration, which would appear to be inconsistent with the picture the movies paint of his abilities.
I don't see why we should throw out Yoda's other feats simply because you believe he is struggling here. They still remain canon to the SW universe.
According to Chris Cherasi, who's an editor at LucasBooks:
"The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable."
"The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view."
Aside from the movies, and I'd perhaps be willing to include anything that we can attribute directly to George Lucas's vision, nothing that's officially "canon" is a neccessarily true reflection of the Star Wars Universe. We can perhaps apply logic on a case by case basis to determine the probable reliability of a particular source but you're not in a position to say that anything, aside from the movies and direct products of George Lucas's vision, are neccessarily true reflections of the mythologies.
It's not that I "believe" that he is struggling, it's that any realistic and reasonable interpretation would be that he is, given how heavily indicated it is by the time it takes him to move the crane and the movement of his body and facial expression. Given the above quotes, that have been stated in an official capacity by a LucasBooks editor, who's essentially tasked with establishing a cohesive continuity, anything that branches away from the movies is subject to innaccuracies. No EU material can automatically be considered to fit into continuity, so it's not a simple matter of a source fitting into continuity if it doesn't directly and exactly contradict the movies.
Sure, only a "few", but the degree by which they do so is so phenomenally grand that Yoda's display looks pretty laughable in comparison, and people would still consider Yoda one of the most powerful Force Users, among such company or even beyond them, despite such vast differences in the scale of their powers.
Freedon Nadd has also been established to be capable of creating wormholes. Whether the mentioned Ancient Sith received the aid of artifacts in their displays isn't a concern of mine as far as they pertain to these topics where combatants are assumed to have access to the equipment they regularly carry/use in battle. And I wouldn't really put Starkiller among such company considering he hasn't demonstrated anything even approaching that scale.
Originally posted by Iden Enserath
According to Chris Cherasi, who's an editor at LucasBooks:"The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable."
I'd urge you to be very careful (and by that, I mean diplomatic) when applying this quote, Nebwuffles. You risk someone pointing out that outlier feats such as Darth Sidious's Force Storm, Darth Nihilus's drain, etc. don't fall within George Lucas's visions and are, thus, N-canon.
Ah, I'd forgotten about that quote. Good stuff.
Considering Yoda in Dark Rendezvous was able to pretty much seal against the vacuum of space in quick timing and later divert the direction of an orbital missile while in mid-combat, the idea that he struggles with a crane does seem like his lowest showing to date.
Not immediately N-Canon, but of unascertained canonicity, which would apply to anything that isn't a direct result of George Lucas's vision, if we wanted to group them all together in the same shared universe. And indeed, that would include even the Bane novels. That being said, while you can't refer to anything aside from the GL Sources as definitively fitting into continuity, that doesn't mean we can't argue the likelihood that they fit into that shared universe, and I'd submit that the best way to do that would be to examine how well a source fits in first and foremost with the GL Sources, as well as the majority of EU sources, with recent sources taking priority. You can also consider the nature of the sources, as was stated in one of the quotes listed above, such as videogames and their interactive approach. But the point is that nothing that's labelled "canon" necessarily fits into this shared continuity that Chris Cherasi references, and in the cases of some of Yoda's greater telekinetic feats, I don't think they can be reasonably said to do so.
no way there can be exact figures. How tall was the thing? we can't tell without a detailed analysis of Dooku's retreating form mixed with various numbers to account for scale.
As long as Neb keeps claiming his own interpretation of Yoda's actions is the only possible canon view however, there is no use to continue this discussion.