Poll
29%
71%
Well, somehow I doubt Marek could easily dominate Bane with the force. I don’t see that happening. Maybe he could do that to Krayt, but not to Bane.
Sabers: I’m inclined to give it to team two. Bane and Krayt are protected by armor, and both are more than able with sabers. Especially Bane. Plus, there’s Caedus who is a saber prodigy in his own right.
Force: Kun’s amulets plus Marek’s bitchin’ TK makes me give it to team one. Besides Dooku is known for his refined mastery of the force,
All-out: Dunno
I think that, after a while, Marek would beat Bane in a force fight, thats what I ment. Never said it would be easy, but by the time Marek gets through Banes defenses, hes going to just rape him with force powers.
But yeah, Team 2 wins in sabers hands down, simply due to the armor and the Orbalisk regeneration.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'd go with team one. Dooku is probably the weakest link but I don't see him being too far behind Exar Kun in terms of power.Team 2's weakest link is Krayt and I don't see him as being too much of a threat for Dooku.
Gotta disagree there. Saber skill is an area where Krayt excels, and he has raw power and two swords over Dooku too. And in the force, I'd give the solid advantage to Krayt.
Dooku's good, but I think Krayt just has him beat.
Originally posted by Q99
Saber skill is an area where Krayt excels,
I wouldn't put Krayt on Dooku's level. I would say Dooku was one of the most accomplished swordsman in galactic history, being able to momentarily keep up with the likes of Yoda, and being a match for Mace Windu blade to blade.
Originally posted by Q99
and he has raw power and two swords over Dooku too.
Dooku knows how to handle someone with two swords. He did humiliate Ventress, who was able to hold her own against both Anakin and Obi Wan at the same time, and Ventress had the help of Savage Opress. Don't forget that Dooku is the one who trained Grievous, and occasionally beat him in sparring sessions.
Originally posted by Q99
And in the force, I'd give the solid advantage to Krayt.
Can I ask why you would think that?
Originally posted by Q99
Dooku's good, but I think Krayt just has him beat.
To be honest I do not know too much about Krayt after his resurrection. I have not seen anything from Krayt that would make me believe he is on Dooku's level.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku is probably the weakest link but I don't see him being too far behind Exar Kun in terms of power.Team 2's weakest link is Krayt and I don't see him as being too much of a threat for Dooku.
I feel that in sabers, Marek will go down relatively quickly to either member of team two, and that leaves Exar and Dooku facing Bane, Caedus and Krayt. Team one is not going to win this.
I’d say that Bane is probably the most dangerous swordsman here, even before Dooku. That is due to the Orbalisk that protects him. Also, because of the armor, Krayt is not to be underestimated in sabers.
In the force, however, the situation is quite reverse. I see Krayt going down to either Exar, Marek or Dooku. Though I must say, I think that it will take more time than for Marek loosing in sabers. Still, team one wins force battle.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I wouldn't put Krayt on Dooku's level. I would say Dooku was one of the most accomplished swordsman in galactic history, being able to momentarily keep up with the likes of Yoda, and being a match for Mace Windu blade to blade.
Young Krayt was close to Obi-wan's skill after the Clone Wars, when Obi-wan was at his peak.
He let himself get surrounded by Imperial Knights and took them out just as easily as Palpatine did the non-Mace Jedi who came to arrest him. No surprise, just four sword swings to take out four Knights including the Emperor's cousin.
Dooku knows how to handle someone with two swords. He did humiliate Ventress, who was able to hold her own against both Anakin and Obi Wan at the same time, and Ventress had the help of Savage Opress. Don't forget that Dooku is the one who trained Grievous, and occasionally beat him in sparring sessions.
But Ventress doesn't have near the power Krayt has, and as time went on both Anakin and Obi-wan outpaced her.
Krayt'd eat Grievous.
Can I ask why you would think that?
Greater strength, comparable sword skills, more force knowledge, more experience, more raw power.
This is a person who fought his way through and destroyed a Vong battleship with nothing but force lightning and his own rage, not even a lightsaber.
Remember the episode of the CW where Dooku and Obi-wan got captured by pirates due to not having their lightsabers? Something of a low-showing on his part, but I think it's an indicator.
To be honest I do not know too much about Krayt after his resurrection. I have not seen anything from Krayt that would make me believe he is on Dooku's level.
What has Dooku shown that's better? Krayt catches force lightning in his bare hands and has no problem with TK either, and he can either hide his presence in the force or make it be felt across the galaxy.
Dooku's an accomplished duelist, but Krayt has pretty well-rounded feats in more areas and in general comes off as more powerful to me.
Originally posted by Q99
Young Krayt was close to Obi-wan's skill after the Clone Wars, when Obi-wan was at his peak.
Krayt wasn't that young then.
Originally posted by Q99
He let himself get surrounded by Imperial Knights and took them out just as easily as Palpatine did the non-Mace Jedi who came to arrest him. No surprise, just four sword swings to take out four Knights including the Emperor's cousin.
That feat doesn't even come close to Palpatine's in comparison. We do not know anything about the Imperial Knights or how good they are. And being called fully trained jedi does not say much.
Originally posted by Q99
But Ventress doesn't have near the power Krayt has, and as time went on both Anakin and Obi-wan outpaced her.
There are times when they outpace her, and there are times in which she seems to get the best of them.
Besides, that wasn't the point I was trying to make.
Originally posted by Q99
Krayt'd eat Grievous.
The point I am trying to make is that Dooku is not unfamiliar with Krayt's form. Having two Saber's won't give Krayt a huge advantage. It didn't win him a fight with Obi Wan, for their skills to have been close like you say at that time.
Originally posted by Q99
Greater strength
Physical? Or in the force?
Originally posted by Q99
comparable sword skills
That's quite a claim. Dooku is up there with Mace Windu, and nothing I've seen from Krayt would make me believe he is up there.
Originally posted by Q99
more force knowledge
You do know that Dooku was trained under Darth Sidious, right? He had access to many of his holocrons. He even had access to Andeddu's holocron, who wouldn't even unlock his secrets for Krayt. Dooku also made visits to Korriban which was where Krayt got most of his knowledge.
You have to remember, there were some sith who did not view Krayt as a real sith, and did not give him access to any of their knowledge.
Originally posted by Q99
more experience
Probably, but he was in hiding for a long time and spent a lot of it in stasis.
Originally posted by Q99
more raw power.
I don't know about that, but I do know that Dooku is way more refined than Krayt.
Originally posted by Q99
This is a person who fought his way through and destroyed a Vong battleship with nothing but force lightning and his own rage, not even a lightsaber.
He caused significant damage or destroyed the ship?
Originally posted by Q99
Remember the episode of the CW where Dooku and Obi-wan got captured by pirates due to not having their lightsabers? Something of a low-showing on his part, but I think it's an indicator.
Dooku was surrounded and held at gun point and probably did not want to risk being killed if he did not have to. They didn't want to kill him, but to hold him for ransom. If Dooku had no other choice and if they were gonna kill him anyways, Dooku may have taken them. We see how Ventress telekenetically killed a gang of thugs who had her surrounded and held at gun point, while she was seriously injured.
Originally posted by Q99
What has Dooku shown that's better?
His refinement with the force and his saber skills. The way he easily defeats certain opponents. For example:
- He easily takes Obi Wan out by forcing choking him and sends him flying into a balcony, leaving him unconscious, and then collapses the balcony on him.
- Overpowers Ventress with lightning and uses the force to easily snatch her lightsabers. The same Ventress who just recently overpowered both Anakin and Obi Wan with TK, lifting them off the ground and force choking them, at the same time.
- Knocked Sora Bulq unconscious with force lightning and brought some of the roof down on master Tholme after getting the best of them in a saber duel.
Dooku also went toe to toe with Mace Windu. This in particular shows how skilled Dooku is in saber combat. I don't see how you would think Krayt comes close.
Originally posted by Q99
Krayt catches force lightning in his bare hands and has no problem with TK either, and he can either hide his presence in the force or make it be felt across the galaxy.
Dooku can also redirect lightning. And he has shown greater strength and control in TK than Krayt has, being able to easily lift several huge monolith's, and sealing off the entry way of a cave by causing large portions of the roof to collapse.
Originally posted by Q99
Dooku's an accomplished duelist, but Krayt has pretty well-rounded feats in more areas and in general comes off as more powerful to me.
Like I said, I don't know much about Krayt after his resurrection, but so far nothing I've read from the comics or looked up from wookieepedia makes me believe Krayt is on Dooku's level, which is why I asked you. I do know that Krayt is pretty impressive with lightning. You say he is able to catch it with his bare hands, but I do remember him being completely overpowered by Karness Muur's lightning. I do not see Dooku being overpowered that easily by Muur.
Im also not quite sure on Krayt's current power level, but I would think that the Vong armor would allow him to go toe to toe with Dooku and come out on top at least 6/10. Granted, it will be long and hard, but Dooku doesnt have the sheer rage that Krayt has, Dooku would get tired first and die. He was in his 80's as of ROTS, wasnt he?
Meanwhile, I could see Bane taking out either Kun or Marek in all out, he could speed blitz them, and Kun would die faster, due to Banes knowledge of a saberstaff fighting style. Marek would take longer due to adapted Jar'Kai/Juyo combo. Caedus should be able to hold either one back long enough for one to die.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Krayt wasn't that young then.
Compared to how old he later became he is 🙂 Less than 1/4th his total lifespan, and that was before he has any Sith training after all.
That feat doesn't even come close to Palpatine's in comparison. We do not know anything about the Imperial Knights or how good they are. And being called fully trained jedi does not say much.
I'm pretty sure at least the Emperor's Cousin was a master. And sure, while it's not as much as Palp's (because we know Kit Fisto at least was pretty good too), it's still fairly impressive considering no surprise and surrounded.
The point I am trying to make is that Dooku is not unfamiliar with Krayt's form. Having two Saber's won't give Krayt a huge advantage. It didn't win him a fight with Obi Wan, for their skills to have been close like you say at that time.
But combined with raw power, which is what gave Anakin the edge against Dooku in their final fight.
Physical? Or in the force?
Both, I'd say. The guy's huge as well as being very powerful.
That's quite a claim. Dooku is up there with Mace Windu, and nothing I've seen from Krayt would make me believe he is up there.
And Obi-wan's a rather impressive duelist himself who in sword skill is pretty near that level himself.
I've certainly seen nothing that puts Krayt lower.
You do know that Dooku was trained under Darth Sidious, right? He had access to many of his holocrons. He even had access to Andeddu's holocron, who wouldn't even unlock his secrets for Krayt. Dooku also made visits to Korriban which was where Krayt got most of his knowledge.
Yes, but he's also studied the darkside for a fraction of the time. A decade or two compared to Krayt's century.
Krayt's searched out Sith knowledge across the galaxy, and does have Holocrons and sources Dooku didn't like XoXaan and Vergere.
You have to remember, there were some sith who did not view Krayt as a real sith, and did not give him access to any of their knowledge.
To the best of our knowledge, just those three, and he's been collecting Sith knowledge from all over for a long long time.
I don't know about that, but I do know that Dooku is way more refined than Krayt.
No argument that he's highly refined, but power's won out against Dooku's refinement before.
He caused significant damage or destroyed the ship?
The ship blew up, yes.
Fighting through a shipful of Vong warriors with no weapons when they can't be sensed in the force is rather impressive in itself.
His refinement with the force and his saber skills. The way he easily defeats certain opponents. For example:- He easily takes Obi Wan out by forcing choking him and sends him flying into a balcony, leaving him unconscious, and then collapses the balcony on him.
- Overpowers Ventress with lightning and uses the force to easily snatch her lightsabers. The same Ventress who just recently overpowered both Anakin and Obi Wan with TK, lifting them off the ground and force choking them, at the same time.
- Knocked Sora Bulq unconscious with force lightning and brought some of the roof down on master Tholme after getting the best of them in a saber duel.
All three of which relied on having an advantage in strength of force. Krayt's had no problem defending against lightning and TK from any opponent, even Celeste Morne, an ancient Jedi Master who was tapping into the power of the Muur Talisman to boost her strength.
Dooku also went toe to toe with Mace Windu. This in particular shows how skilled Dooku is in saber combat. I don't see how you would think Krayt comes close.
Obi-wan level skill + 130 years and extensive Sith training isn't even close?
I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise.
Dooku can also redirect lightning. And he has shown greater strength and control in TK than Krayt has, being able to easily lift several huge monolith's, and sealing off the entry way of a cave by causing large portions of the roof to collapse.
And Cade Skywalker throws starships and Krayt toyed with him.
Wyyrlok threw a lot of stuff at him when they fought in War too, but it was all just brushed aside.
Dooku can redirect lightning, I don't see him doing so bare-handed from someone as strong as Wyyrlok.
Like I said, I don't know much about Krayt after his resurrection, but so far nothing I've read from the comics or looked up from wookieepedia makes me believe Krayt is on Dooku's level, which is why I asked you.
Well, I've posted plenty of examples of Krayt doing awesome stuff fairly regularly, not sure why none of that is enough.
Where are you getting the idea he's weaker?
He's had comparison points to almost every era after all- Ancient Sith, Andeddu got crushed by Wyyrlok. KotoR, a Master further empowered by the talisman is no match for Krayt according to Muur himself. Clone Wars, well he himself was a highly skilled CW saber master, rather high up in an order known for it's saber skills, and has shown himself to be far more powerful than he was back then.
You say he is able to catch it with his bare hands, but I do remember him being completely overpowered by Karness Muur's lightning. I do not see Dooku being overpowered that easily by Muur.
He was beating Muur's lightning until he got stabbed in the neck by Azlyn Rae (Imperial Knight). So there are *somewhat* extenuating circumstances 🙂 A saber through the neck'll cramp anyone's style.
I have always held that the best "measuring stick" of these diffrent era characters was Morne. ANyway lets see how it went down. Celeste Morne was able to hold off both Krayt and Maladi at the same time. Clearly Krayt isn't far superior to her. Comparatively, a newly annointed Vader was able to defeat Morne twice rather quickly... Hell, even a pre-ESB Luke was able to challenge her.
Really, I just don't see how Krayt will be able to take out Dooku due to his performance against Morne.
Originally posted by Pwned
Meanwhile, I could see Bane taking out either Kun or Marek in all out, he could speed blitz them, and Kun would die faster, due to Banes knowledge of a saberstaff fighting style. Marek would take longer due to adapted Jar'Kai/Juyo combo. Caedus should be able to hold either one back long enough for one to die.
Eh?
How is Bane speed blitzng any of these guys. Yes he is fast and powerful, but these guys are skilled swordsmen as well. Also Marek is a beast in the force, not to mention his lightning would play havok on Bane's Orbalisks if it hits. Hell, I'd assume Exar Kun's amulet blasts would have a similar effect as well. Not saying they would neccessarily win. But it would be a hell of a fight at the very least.
Anyway, Caedus is the most dangerous opponent on team 2. I mean this guy has some insane force powers and is probably the greatest swordsman in the entire mythos save Luke himself.
Originally posted by ares834
I have always held that the best "measuring stick" of these diffrent era characters was Morne. ANyway lets see how it went down. Celeste Morne was able to hold off both Krayt and Maladi at the same time. Clearly Krayt isn't far superior to her. Comparatively, a newly annointed Vader was able to defeat Morne twice rather quickly... Hell, even a pre-ESB Luke was able to challenge her.
Note that when it was one on one, Krayt was fighting Muur, not Morne, and when she took control and Maladi joined in, Muur essentially said, "You're screwed, give in so at least I'll live." And Krayt was giving his 'Join me and we'll master Muur' speech, not exactly trying to kill her, but all the same he had her on the ropes.
(Another note, between the two eras, Morne had spent a hundred thirty years awake and working to control the Muur talisman. She had access to it's power in Legacy and was drawing on it, unlike in Dark Times. She's almost as old as Krayt purely in terms of time spent awake)
Really, I just don't see how Krayt will be able to take out Dooku due to his performance against Morne.
Dooku's had much lower performances than not insta-beating (though still clearly holding the upper hand against) a legendary Sith Lord in the body of a Jedi master.
Originally posted by ares834
Caedus is the most dangerous opponent on team 2. I mean this guy has some insane force powers and is probably the greatest swordsman in the entire mythos save Luke himself.