Magneto vs Cloak....

This is the thing with Cloak, it seems they kept watering down his powers over the years to the point where he's just basically a guy in a cape that can trap people with his cloak.

Originally, his cloak was a doorway into another dimension, the Dark Dimension. This was the same place that NC tps too, Darkstar/Blackout/Vanisher/etc.. get their power from. There was never a mention of a Beast or demon living inside, that came later (and is crappy writing IMHO since other Darkforce wielders make NO mention of such a creature).

Cloak was always intangible unless he strained himself and made himself corporeal. Cloak isn't intangible in the same way Kitty Pride is intangible. She goes intangible (Vision too I think) by spacing her molecules apart so they pass through solid objects. Sufficiently dense objects have been known to stop her from phasing through (I think a Sentinel pulled this trick on her or something in the future). Cloak is intangible because he does something with his physical body that shunts it into the Dark Dimension. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

So Magneto sensing NC tping into and out of the Dark Dimension by feeling the ripples in the magnetic lines as Nightcrawler enters and leaves the Dark Dimension would be meaningless vs Cloak because Cloak's body NEVER leaves the Dark Dimension unless he strains to become physical. He wouldn't leave any ripples in the magnetic lines because his body is intangible. His intangibility is nothing like Kitty Pride's/Shadowcat's since he's not spacing his body's molecules apart to allow him to pass through solid objects, his entire physical form is shunted into another plane of reality.

Now add to the fact that he can create pitch black inky smoke that can't be penetrated by normal means and Magneto would be FUGGED in a fight vs Cloak. His only hope would be to maintain distance and flee.

Now these are his "classic" powers. It seems he was raped by the nerf bat in recent years. Shame too since he was one of the few "cool" and powerful minority characters in comics back in the day at Marvel.

Originally posted by zopzop
This is the thing with Cloak, it seems they kept watering down his powers over the years to the point where he's just basically a guy in a cape that can trap people with his cloak.

Originally, his cloak was a doorway into another dimension, the Dark Dimension. This was the same place that NC tps too, Darkstar/Blackout/Vanisher/etc.. get their power from. There was never a mention of a Beast or demon living inside, that came later (and is crappy writing IMHO since other Darkforce wielders make NO mention of such a creature).

Cloak was always intangible unless he strained himself and made himself corporeal. Cloak isn't intangible in the same way Kitty Pride is intangible. She goes intangible (Vision too I think) by spacing her molecules apart so they pass through solid objects. Sufficiently dense objects have been known to stop her from phasing through (I think a Sentinel pulled this trick on her or something in the future). Cloak is intangible because he does something with his physical body that shunts it into the Dark Dimension. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

So Magneto sensing NC tping into and out of the Dark Dimension by feeling the ripples in the magnetic lines as Nightcrawler enters and leaves the Dark Dimension would be meaningless vs Cloak because Cloak's body NEVER leaves the Dark Dimension unless he strains to become physical. He wouldn't leave any ripples in the magnetic lines because his body is intangible. His intangibility is nothing like Kitty Pride's/Shadowcat's since he's not spacing his body's molecules apart to allow him to pass through solid objects, his entire physical form is shunted into another plane of reality.

Now add to the fact that he can create pitch black inky smoke that can't be penetrated by normal means and Magneto would be FUGGED in a fight vs Cloak. His only hope would be to maintain distance and flee.

Now these are his "classic" powers. It seems he was raped by the nerf bat in recent years. Shame too since he was one of the few "cool" and powerful minority characters in comics back in the day at Marvel.

dude, how about you let me know what issues you are talking about, because I've been flipping through the volumes, and he gains powers over the years, not loses them

so, issues, scans, anything like that, I'll look it up, but largely, I think you are just flat out wrong here

Originally posted by inimalist
dude, how about you let me know what issues you are talking about, because I've been flipping through the volumes, and he gains powers over the years, not loses them

so, issues, scans, anything like that, I'll look it up, but largely, I think you are just flat out wrong here

It's from the 86 Handbook. Everything I mentioned is from his entry there : his darkness mist that defies NORMAL aka non mystical light, the way his body is intangible, the fact that he opens gates into another dimension, etc... His powers have been NERFED not buffed through they years.

ok, so, I see no reason to put any value in your argument :/

Originally posted by inimalist
ok, so, I see no reason to put any value in your argument :/

Genius, my argument is : EVER SINCE THE LATE 80s, HIS POWERS SEEM TO HAVE BEEN NERFED. Reading comprehension is your friend.

yup, you are right

and, as per forum rules, your handbook is way more valid than my scans. I am in awe of your research skills my friend, please post more informed opinions based on sources we all take as hugely valid

/ffs

Originally posted by zopzop
Genius, my argument is : EVER SINCE THE LATE 80s, HIS POWERS SEEM TO HAVE BEEN NERFED. Reading comprehension is your friend.

even though you can't name a single instance when he was at the power level you think he is.... weird how that works...

and here I'm posting scans from their actual series...

man, people are going to be so confused as to who has a better argument here

Originally posted by inimalist
yup, you are right

and, as per forum rules, your handbook is way more valid than my scans. I am in awe of your research skills my friend, please post more informed opinions based on sources we all take as hugely valid

/ffs

Since you seem to be an illiterate, I'll say again : In my post I said his CLASSIC powers, using the Handbook from 1986 (the Handbook even gave examples from his battles on panel and gave an explanation on how his body becomes intangible).

Since that time it seems his powers have changed significantly (most important being a Beast that dwells inside his cloak, this Beast can't be inside the Dark Dimension proper since NO other Darkforce user makes mention of it). That's just one example.

Do you understand now?

so, your point is that you have nothing to substantiate your claims?

Originally posted by inimalist
so, your point is that you have nothing to substantiate your claims?

My point is that since 1986, his powers have taken a hit and have changed drastically (see the Beast within the dimension), all the scans you provided were from the mid 90s. You understand how numbers work right?

intangible?

Cloak and Dagger v1 3 (remember folks, he has been nerfed since this time [sic]):

Originally posted by zopzop
My point is that since 1986, his powers have taken a hit and have changed drastically (see the Beast within the dimension), all the scans you provided were from the mid 90s. You understand how numbers work right?

Originally posted by inimalist
so, your point is that you have nothing to substantiate your claims?

EDIT: and the doom scans are from 87...

god this thread must be a constant embarrassment

Originally posted by inimalist
intangible?

Cloak and Dagger v1 3 (remember folks, he has been nerfed since this time [sic]):

Context please, the 86 Handbook says he can be forced tangible by consuming enough "light". I saw that word thrown around a lot in that one scan.

Originally posted by inimalist
EDIT: and the doom scans are from 87...

god this thread must be a constant embarrassment

Not really, one mistake doesn't make a constant stream of embarrassments. It took place after 86.

lol

you are asking me to substantiate something? irony proper

anyways, you know, cloak has 4 appearances before 1986, only the 4 part cloak and dagger mini? so, in your mind, this 4 issue mini is more important for the character than are the hundreds of subsequent appearances

I am really at a loss for words dude, other than those that insult your intelligence. this has become a waste of my time and is entirely unenjoyable

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

you are asking me to substantiate something? irony proper

anyways, you know, cloak has 4 appearances before 1986, only the 4 part cloak and dagger mini? so, in your mind, this 4 issue mini is more important for the character than are the hundreds of subsequent appearances

I am really at a loss for words dude, other than those that insult your intelligence. this has become a waste of my time and is entirely unenjoyable

It means his powers were CHANGED since that mini and the 86 Handbook entry. Quick question, what issue was that Dr. Doom/Cloak fight in because I think you're lying out your ass.

cloak and dagger, volume 2, issue 10

want me to send it to you, I can, It'll taste like crow though...

Originally posted by zopzop
Context please, the 86 Handbook says he can be forced tangible by consuming enough "light". I saw that word thrown around a lot in that one scan.

oh, and here, from earlier in the same issue, Cloak is intangible enough to get grabbed by homeless folk:

remember, these are from the pre 86 4 issue, the one you say Cloak is uber in...

Originally posted by inimalist
cloak and dagger, volume 2, issue 10

want me to send it to you, I can, It'll taste like crow though...

Ok, I see. They fought Doom in 87 as well as 90. But my point still stands, it took place after the Handbook entry and it seems his powers were going downhill since.

oh really?

can you name a single instance from pre-86 that is inconsistent with post-86?

even just issue numbers, I mean, heaven forbid you post a scan of what you are suggesting

Originally posted by inimalist

oh, and here, from earlier in the same issue, Cloak is intangible enough to get grabbed by homeless folk:

remember, these are from the pre 86 4 issue, the one you say Cloak is uber in...

Dude he was going tangible/intangible, you can see him punching/throwing the goons around.