Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganWhat it was written as doesn't matter. It was retconned to something else.
except he was written as being powerless duign the fight. honestly wtf don't you get. You can't pretend it relevent to use a sabre-tooth that was powerless against IF as if it relevent here.
Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganI can understand as why you see it as irrelevant.
Yes it does matter what happens when it was written. becuase the author wrote him as powerless. To pretend that relevant here is absurd. DO you honestly not grasp why that not relevant?
But due to the retcon I see it as different.
Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganRegressing to insulting?
Well your a fool. Honestly dont understand how you can't grasp that.Also his fight with IF was never reconnt. As srank pointed out sabre-tooth was reconnt.
Same difference. He was retconned, therefore all his fights were retconned to him having his powers.
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Regressing to insulting?Same difference. He was retconned, therefore all his fights were retconned to him having his powers.
Except he was not written to have the power during the fight. How dont you understand that. If the author did not right him with powers how on earth is it relevent to this fight?
Dude I trying really hard not to insult you but the fatc you can't grasp the difference is simply puzzling.
It's crucial how the characters were written at that time. Retcons, shitcons don't matter.
But like I said before, even if Sabretooth had his mutant powerset then... he's been upgraded a few times and Danny simply can't match this kind of power.
Sabes stronger than IF? Check.
Faster? Check.
More durable? Check.
Healing quicker? Check.
More vicious? Check.
Danny has the skill and maybe agility advantages, that's all. Well, and striking power via IF... but it ain't gonna do him any good against an opponent with adamantium skeleton, superhuman durability that heals faster than freakin Wolverine 😐
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's crucial how the characters were written at that time. Retcons, shitcons don't matter.But like I said before, even if Sabretooth had his mutant powerset then... he's been upgraded a few times and Danny simply can't match this kind of power.
Sabes stronger than IF? Check.
Faster? Check.
More durable? Check.
Healing quicker? Check.
More vicious? Check.
Danny has the skill and maybe agility advantages, that's all. Well, and striking power via IF... but it ain't gonna do him any good against an opponent with adamantium skeleton, superhuman durability that heals faster than freakin Wolverine 😐
Seriously. One clean hit, claws or no, and Iron Fist is done. Alternatively Sabretooth could eat a dozen Iron Fists with a smile on his face. To get a win in a forum match Iron Fist would have land dozens of blows without getting tagged once... and that isn't going to happen. Even Paladin got shots in on Danny, and he wasn't even trying. It's absurd to believe that Iron Fist has a shot at the majority here.
Sabretooth wins, everyone but two trolls and a handful of mongoloids agree.
Sorry srank and BH but you're both wrong with your no-retcon statement. I admit it may not be logical, but retcons aren't logical by definition. Logan's very own first appearance was before he "got" his powers, but his battle with Hulk exists. Ergo, fights just aren't erased that way. You're wrong. At least when it comes to the rules in this forums, you're wrong.
I can battlezone you about it or bring a mod for you to understand you're kicking the proverbial dead horse.
My suggestion is: Deal with it. You can prove that even if Sabes got beaten by Danny, it's a low showing, many great fighters are used to bump someone else's status.
Originally posted by Bentley
Sorry srank and BH but you're both wrong with your no-retcon statement. I admit it may not be logical, but retcons aren't logical by definition. Logan's very own first appearance was before he "got" his powers, but his battle with Hulk exists. Ergo, fights just aren't erased that way. You're wrong. At least when it comes to the rules in this forums, you're wrong.I can battlezone you about it or bring a mod for you to understand you're kicking the proverbial dead horse.
My suggestion is: Deal with it. You can prove that even if Sabes got beaten by Danny, it's a low showing, many great fighters are used to bump someone else's status.
wolverine from 181 is not relevent o current wolverine, he dident even have a healing factor. Also that on pannel has been directly reconnted in wolverinne 51.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
bring a mod, becuase I want a ruling on that, because it absolute bs. How you can try and pretend a character prior to having powers getting beat is some how now relevant despite the fact when written the author did so with out him having powers..........how can you logically sit there and tell me that legitment evidence?wolverine from 181 is not relevent o current wolverine, he dident even have a healing factor. Also that on pannel has been directly reconnted in wolverinne 51.
I'm not saying it's logical, quite the opposite: Any retcon is not logical by definition, but we always consider retcons when discussing. Trust me, I see where you're coming from, its just that the general rule points in the other direction.
I'll just ask a mod and try to make an "official ruling", I'm sure there will be hard exceptions but it would be better to clarify it.
Also something to be noted on the original Sabretooth. As he definitely wasn't just perceived as a regular "human" for those who keep saying that. Even from the beginning.
He showed he had very dangerous claws and he showed his heightened super senses pick up on Danny when disguised as Creed's henchmen. Danny was also worried about early Creed's power and speed(doesn't mean he was superhuman but very impressed at least).
The writer already knew he was a mutant as a matter a fact he even had Danny face the X-Men in the very next issue. As the writer even had Danny say Logan reminds him a lot of Creed.(which isn't coincidence since at the time the writer was pushing to make Creed the actual father of Logan)
So at least we know Creed wasn't just considered a regular human for hire but in fact a mutant for hire.
It definitely doesn't mean Creeds abilities then are even close to the portrayal of today though. Even his skills went up.
But to be fair neither are Ironfist's. In that era Danny Rand could only do about 1 Ironfist technique before as it would drain him to much. This isn't even touching his more exotic portrayal abilities and new found powers of today.
IMO both fans of Creed/Danny have the right to theorize who would win until they clash again.
On the retcon wars of displayed ability. Even if a mod makes a ruling about this so the board can function and chooses a side. In the end there isn't a real rule to go by and each one makes a good case. IMO I don't like board rulings/mod rulings because then it could become to much mod reliance and closer to CBR, when there is controversy. And lets face it on our board the debates/controversy is what our boards thrive on. Without it it wouldn't be as fun and more boring IMO.
I too have had my long tedious war with srank. But I wouldn't have it any other way, without a mod interfering and saying this is how a retcon works and this is how his power works etc etc. That really takes your own research and references out the window IMO. Now I don't mind a mod giving there opinion on who's side is right or who they think will win the fight. Now that is entirely different.
Originally posted by Bentley
Sorry srank and BH but you're both wrong with your no-retcon statement. I admit it may not be logical, but retcons aren't logical by definition. Logan's very own first appearance was before he "got" his powers, but his battle with Hulk exists. Ergo, fights just aren't erased that way. You're wrong. At least when it comes to the rules in this forums, you're wrong.I can battlezone you about it or bring a mod for you to understand you're kicking the proverbial dead horse.
My suggestion is: Deal with it. You can prove that even if Sabes got beaten by Danny, it's a low showing, many great fighters are used to bump someone else's status.
Logan's fight with the Hulk actually was retcon'd though, several times, to allow for the existence of Wolverine's healing factor, as well as the Hulks, both of which were absent in the original depiction.
Sorry, but your wrong, and you will continue to be wrong no matter how many false equivalencies you bring up in a vain effort to solidify your stance. Sabretooth didn't have powers when he fought Iron Fist, the fights are completely irrelevant.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, break it down for me, please. Then I'll give you a ruling.So far I have the gist that Iron Fist once beat Sabretooth, but that was somehow before Creed had powers? Was this another Iron Fist?
Maybe I'm wrong.
Sabretooth and Danny fought in Iron Fist v1 issue 14. Creed didn't have his powers at the time, and it wasn't until almost 10 years later that Marvel decided he should be a Wolverine villain and he was given his healing factor and enhanced attributes.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Sabretooth and Danny fought in Iron Fist v1 issue 14. Creed didn't have his powers at the time, and it wasn't until almost 10 years later that Marvel decided he should be a Wolverine villain and he was given his healing factor and enhanced attributes.
Okay, and what are you guys trying to get ruled? That it doesn't count?