Tulak Hord versus Sidious

Greatest evah and bonafide mastur of the lightsabur versus someone who took over a Republic using shifty tactics.

Discuss!

Khem Val solo's both.

Darth Sa'vage, obviously....

Dashade are interesting.

Battle of what now? Is Bioware still making stuff up without reading previous material?

Remember that Kreia said Tulak Hord mastery of a light saber would make KotOR Jedi/Sith look like children. Thus movie Jedi/Sith would be like fetuses.

Which means the Jedi are pro-Choice.

Those monsters!

Originally posted by ares834
Remember that Kreia said Tulak Hord mastery of a light saber would make KotOR Jedi/Sith look like children. Thus movie Jedi/Sith would be like fetuses.

So is Palpatine a second or third trimester Sith?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Which means the Jedi are pro-Choice.

Nah, but the Sith are. Afterall it is Tulak Hord who is preforming the abortions. Damn Sith and their liberal views! No wonder the galaxy went to hell under Palpatine!

Originally posted by ares834
Nah, but the Sith are. Afterall it is Tulak Hord who is preforming the abortions. Damn Sith and their liberal views! No wonder the galaxy went to hell under Palpatine!

Originally posted by Exal Kressh
So is Palpatine a second or third trimester Sith?

Palpatine is a broken condom. A true event horizon in sithdom.

I find the older = better with force user thing to be silly. I mean, later Sith study and train with the techniques of the old ones, so things should stay at least more-or-less level. With some techniques lost, but other new ones made in their place.

You'd expect stuff like lightsaber combat to be more sophisticated over time, and overall later-era lightsaber masters do impress me more.

Originally posted by Q99
I find the older = better with force user thing to be silly. I mean, later Sith study and train with the techniques of the old ones, so things should stay at least more-or-less level. With some techniques lost, but other new ones made in their place.

You'd expect stuff like lightsaber combat to be more sophisticated over time, and overall later-era lightsaber masters do impress me more.

Originally posted by Zampanó
Not necessarily. Combat techniques are a bit like the Oral Tradition of many pre-literate tribes, in that transfer of information across generations is imperfect.

Yes, but the students are learning more and trying to press knowledge forward as well in many cases (less-so in some eras like with the Brotherhood, but in general).

And with Holocrons, it shouldn't be that bad. Heck, with Jedi, you've got Yoda around for most of that version of the order's history.

The longer an order is around, in general the sharper the techniques should get as they accumulate tricks, fencing and force manuals, etc. etc.. That was basically the idea behind the Rule of Two, and why most orders, Jedi and Sith, consider Loremaster to be an important position.

That was basically the idea behind the Rule of Two,

Yeah but remember that practically all Bane did since he founded the ROT was track down lost Holocrons and ancient knowledge that had been lost. Information gets lost alot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah but remember that practically all Bane did since he founded the ROT was track down lost Holocrons and ancient knowledge that had been lost. Information gets lost alot.

And information gets added.

Lost knowledge can account for stuff like lack of knowledge on creating some of the ancient artifacts and such, but sword techniques? That's an area where there's not much reason to assume any backslide.

Why?

With at least seven different disciplines, why would you expect a total master of each separate form to arise in each generation, let alone someone capable of improving the form, let alone a total master capable of teaching students competently.

There are plenty of places for "backslide."

Originally posted by Zampanó
Why?

With at least seven different disciplines, why would you expect a total master of each separate form to arise in each generation, let alone someone capable of improving the form, let alone a total master capable of teaching students competently.

Seven disciplines is a limited way of describing it, after all what those styles are have changed as one variant of a form falls out of favor and another takes it's place. Think more in terms of each user's personal style. In a large order, there will be more variety of opponents, there will always be at least some masters to fight against, and hone one's own way of fighting. Every generation will learn from the one before and be able to test themselves against some of the best to develop their own styles to that level. Masters of one style will beget masters of others who push their skills to match. As long as there's competition and a good training ethic, the total skill shouldn't drop, losses of skill from one style with the loss of a specific master should be easily countered with growth in another, and that loss should also be temporary as even without a true master, you only need someone good enough to pass on the knowledge well, you don't need a true master every generation for every style to not lose it.

And consider in the Jedi specifically, at what point did Yoda become a master? For all the centuries after that, he's always been around to make sure people are doing it right, of showing his accumulated knowledge, and so on. He's not the only long-lasting master for that matter.

There are plenty of places for "backslide."

Only if they're losing teachers faster than they're training new ones and not pushing their skills.

Don't forget that also, they did not start out with full knowledge of the styles. They were developed over time. The seven styles is a Clone Wars thing. It might be in the past there were six, or five, or even not a formally set number, and more were developed and grown over time.

Also remember that as of the Clone Wars the majority of the jedi focused on Niman. Dooku's Makashi was an extreme rarity. In fact, I believe he was the sole surviving master of the form.