Materialists & Atheists cannot explain how a sensation of pain can evolve!

Just think the most basic requirement of the most primitive life form – a desire to live and survive must be the desire to avoid pain. Yet it cannot evolve via natural selection.

Do you believe in natural selection? So do I ...... but you have to concede it cannot explain how the mind evolves, only physical bodies. Unless consciousness is more fundamental than material stuff, natural selection doesn't work for minds.

Are you an atheist? If by that you mean religious theism ... well so am I ... but you have to honestly admit atheists have no explanation on how the mind evolves, only physical bodies.

why don't you think pain could have come through natural selection?

Um, that's exactly it; your body needs to know what pain is, or else it will be unable to avoid it. If you lacked the ability to feel extreme heat, you might set your hand on a hot object and be badly burnt... seems obvious.

Originally posted by inimalist
why don't you think pain could have come through natural selection?

Explain how.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Um, that's exactly it; your body needs to know what pain is, or else it will be unable to avoid it. If you lacked the ability to feel extreme heat, you might set your hand on a hot object and be badly burnt... seems obvious.

That is a non-explanation. You are just saying it must have occurred. Explain how it evolves from a non-conscious process into a conscious one.

Originally posted by Parapsychology
That is a non-explanation. You are just saying it must have occurred. Explain how it evolves from a non-conscious process into a conscious one.

Let me explain ....

Originally posted by King Kandy
[B]Um, that's exactly it; your body needs to know what pain is, or else it will be unable to avoid it.

If you lacked the ability to feel extreme heat, you might set your hand on a hot object and be badly burnt.

Originally posted by King Kandy
It is a non-conscious process.

There is no such thing as a non-conscious pain. How can a non-conscious process evolve to conscious pain?

Would any other materialists and atheists like to (fail) to explain how it can evolve?

🙂

this is nonsensical

Originally posted by inimalist
this is nonsensical

That means you will have no problem explaining how.

Looking forward to your reply, (not) explaining how it can occur.

🙂

Originally posted by Parapsychology
There is no such thing as a non-conscious pain. How can a non-conscious process evolve to conscious pain?

Would any other materialists and atheists like to (fail) to explain how it can evolve?

🙂

Originally posted by Parapsychology
Why does a non-conscious machine with no sensation care about being burned? If it does, consciousness is in-built into nature.

Originally posted by Parapsychology
That means you will have no problem explaining how.

Looking forward to your reply, (not) explaining how it can occur.

🙂

I'll prove pain can evolve when you prove there is something called consciousness

Originally posted by King Kandy
pain is not conscious.

So you do not feel pain? That is an extraordinary claim, have you ever felt a pain? 🙂

Originally posted by King Kandy
Do you really not see how something that kills itself through burning, is not evolutionarily favorable?

The ability to avoid damage is necessary to pass genes on.

Originally posted by inimalist
I'll prove pain can evolve when you prove there is something called consciousness

So you are not conscious too? Are you another person who is not conscious of pain? Extraordinary.
🙂

Originally posted by Parapsychology
So you are not conscious too? Are you another person who is not conscious of pain? Extraordinary.
🙂

interesting you would hand wave away such a fundamentally important question.

If consciousness is an emergent biproduct of the complex firing of our brains, then there is no problem of something non-sentient becoming sentient, because sentience is an anthropic line that represents the complexity of our neuronal sophistication, not something different in kind from so called "non-sentient" creatures.

So, for there to be this thing called "consciousness" to become aware of pain, or the problem with the conscious perception of pain, you have to prove there is some thing that fundamentally is consciousness. If you can't tell us what consciousness is, how can we ever tell you how pain becomes conscious? there is no goal-post to meet.

Originally posted by Parapsychology
The pre-conscious lifeform cannot care, it feels nothing and has no goal to survive.

Originally posted by Parapsychology
You are talking as if there was a designer. It is not 'necessary' ...evolution is blind, it doesn't care.

Originally posted by Parapsychology
So you do not feel pain? That is an extraordinary claim, have you ever felt a pain? 🙂

Originally posted by inimalist
[B]i
If consciousness is an emergent biproduct of the complex firing of our brains, then there is no problem of something non-sentient becoming sentient

because sentience is an anthropic line that represents the complexity of our neuronal sophistication

How do you programme a computer to feel a pain? No one has the slightest idea.

So, for there to be this thing called "consciousness" to become aware of pain or the problem with the conscious perception of pain, you have to prove there is some thing that fundamentally is consciousness.