Materialists & Atheists cannot explain how a sensation of pain can evolve!

Originally posted by Parapsychology
You have faith there is 'no problem' .... neurscientist call consciousness the 'hard problem'

right, I don't believe the hard problem represents anything other than how pervasive the illusion of consciousness is. I have yet to see any evidence that consciousness is really anything beyond neuronal firing, if you have such evidence, I would love to see it.

Originally posted by Parapsychology
How do you know? The argument here seems to be here that it magically pops out of greatly evolved blind complexity. That is a belief, not an explanation of how.

which aspect of consciousness do you think isn't explained by neuronal function?

Originally posted by King Kandy
And yet we see unconscious microbes taking action to survive, all the time.

These are either non-conscious avoiders or fundamentally conscious.

Let us assume these are non-conscious avoiders ....these are surviving well without pain, why does senationless, goaless, blind natural selection evolve to feel anything whatsoever?

what is your definition of "evolution"? [/B]

According to materialism - accidents surviving better ... until consciousess emerges, only then is there a desire/goal to survive or ... no consciousness, no reason, no meaning, no pain....

Originally posted by Parapsychology
These are either non-conscious avoiders or fundamentally conscious.

Let us assume these are non-conscious avoiders ....these are surviving well without pain, why does senationless, goaless, blind natural selection evolve to feel anything whatsoever?

Originally posted by Parapsychology
According to materialism - accidents surviving better ... [b]until consciousess emerges, only then is there a desire/goal to survive or a ... no consciousness, no reason, no meaning, no pain. [/B]

Originally posted by inimalist
[B]right, I don't believe the hard problem represents anything other than how pervasive the illusion of consciousness is.

I have yet to see any evidence that consciousness is really anything beyond neuronal firing, if you have such evidence, I would love to see it.

The only way to test it would be somethng like a Near Death Experience but that is heading off topic.

Originally posted by Parapsychology
Next time you feel a conscious pain, remember it is an illusion 🙄

hand wave all you like, you are the one refusing to answer a simple request

Originally posted by Parapsychology
Well the brain is always active, so a materialist is going to claim whatever fMRI, EEG etc. activity occurs must have been the part producing consciousness - it is a non-falsifiable belief

ummm, not at all, much of the activity in the brain happens without conscious awareness...

you should probably stop making such assumptions of materialism, I don't think you understand the principles

Originally posted by King Kandy
Oh. Well, I definitely don't believe in that explanation of life. But I do believe in evolution. 🙂

What explanation? I am not religious. I believe in natural selection ... the materialist version though doesn't explain the evolution of consciousness.

You guys do realize this is Whirly, right?

oh...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You guys do realize this is Whirly, right?

Whoever Whirly is, I am not him or her. I can assure you of that.

Any other atheist/materialist would like to (fail to) explain the steps from a non-consicious automations to a conscious sensation via natural selection?

🙂

Yeah, this guy's posts smacked pretty clearly of trollish behavior. I'll go ahead and run a check, but even if nothing shows up, I think we'd be better off waiting until a fundamental understand of evolution is displayed by the new member instead of wasting our time.

Originally posted by Digi
Yeah, this guy's posts smacked pretty clearly of trollish behavior.
I'll go ahead and run a check, but even if nothing shows up, I think we'd be better off waiting until a fundamental understand of evolution is displayed by the new member instead of wasting our time.

Accusing me of being a troll?

Instead of claiming I do not understand natural selection. Why do you just not admit 'materialists and atheists cannot explain how a sensation of pain evolved ? Is it too hard for materialists and atheists to be honest?

Sensation or pain is the most primitive requirement of the evolution of conscious minds to occur. According to the principles of materialist natural selection, it evolves from sensation or pain ... but nobody can explain it, not even Richard Dawkins comes anywhere close to explaining how non-conscious processes can become conscious. They are deluding themselves ... yes most materialists and atheists are deluding themselves if they do not admit 'materialists and atheists cannot explain how a sensation of pain evolved

I understand natural selection ... I am afraid others posting in here have faith and promises that consciousness can magically pop out of complexity .... it is bit like arguing TV sets create films because the circuit boards are complex. Correlations do not prove causation.

All those materialist/atheist artificial intelligence theorists/programmers have magical thinking. None, not a single one has clue how to make a computer feel a sensation or pain.

The two most common mistakes are : -

(1) Using terms implying conscious processes existed prior to their moment of consciousness evolving (i.e. violating their own version of natural selection)

OR

(2) Adding goal setting, a teleological process not allowed in the materialist version of natural selection which must be completely blind and goaless until consciousness emerges in creatures.

Have a go folks, when you tried to do it, you will fail.