Batman vs Shang Chi

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Don't worry I know how highly you think about yourself and I also know what to give about your opinion. I also heard you are more pro-marvel and your hate for Batman is more then obvious. You can call me a fanboy but insults only prove that one can't expect anything better from you. hehe

You called me an idiot and a hater in your first "rebuttal," so lets not pretend that you are above insults buddy. My insults are just more creative and patronizing. 😉

I like Batman, I like Batman a lot. Hell half of my shelf porn is Batman merch. If I buy a Wolverine action figure or bank, I get a Batman one too to balance the right part of my shelf. What I'm not however is a Batman fanboy. I can objectively place Batman on a skill hierarchy among his peers without the absurd notion that he is the best even crossing my mind. You are a Batman fanboy, and that's fine but you need to own it. I for instance am a Snake-eyes fanboy. I would state on record that I believe Snake-eyes makes Captain America look like a child in a karate class and could defeat the entire Batfamily in h2h... but I am perfectly aware of my bias and inability to be objective on the subject matter.

.

.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You called me an idiot and a hater in your first "rebuttal," so lets not pretend that you are above insults buddy. My insults are just more creative and patronizing. 😉

I like Batman, I like Batman a lot. Hell half of my shelf porn is Batman merch. If I buy a Wolverine action figure or bank, I get a Batman one too to balance the right part of my shelf. What I'm not however is a Batman fanboy. I can objectively place Batman on a skill hierarchy among his peers without the absurd notion that he is the best even crossing my mind. You are a Batman fanboy, and that's fine but you need to own it. I for instance am a Snake-eyes fanboy. I would state on record that I believe Snake-eyes makes Captain America look like a child in a karate class and could defeat the entire Batfamily in h2h... but I am perfectly aware of my bias and inability to be objective on the subject matter.

Sorry, no insult intended. I though you referred to some DC list in the DC Universe, where someone rates Batman below the top 5. Like Superman rates KK (14) higher then Batman (12) for example. So Idiots and Haters should refer to those fictional Chars. If I wasn't clear enough, I hope you accpet my apology.

Anyway. Batman trained since he was very very young, he is obsessed and reached a level no human being can hope to achieve. There shouldn't under any circumstances be any room above him in h2h, at least not for human beings. KK is different, special.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Sorry, no insult intended. I though you referred to some DC list in the DC Universe, where someone rates Batman below the top 5. Like Superman rates KK (14) higher then Batman (12) for example. So Idiots and Haters should refer to those fictional Chars. If I wasn't clear enough, I hope you accpet my apology.

Anyway. Batman trained since he was very very young, he is obsessed and reached a level no human being can hope to achieve. There shouldn't under any circumstances be any room above him in h2h, at least not for human beings. KK is different, special.

I don't care if you make jabs and chide me, frankly it would liven up the thread if you did. 😎

Bruce returned to Gotham when he was 25 after training / traveling for twelve years. That twelve years wasn't solely devoted to martial arts and fighting either, in that period he also became proficient in virtually every field of science (likely got some business / economics degrees considering his day job), and really every possible hobby or activity on the planet. There is plenty of room for humans to better fighters than him. Batman isn't the best fighter and he has never been billed as such. He is the best detective. Other than criminology and his skills as a detective there is someone better than Batman in virtually every field. What there isn't, is a more rounded character. Look at it this way, in terms of martial prowess Batman is Salieri. He is among the top of his field but not on quite on par with prodigies like Mozart (Dragon / Shiva / Turner)... but the thing that you need to remember is that Batman is Salieri in virtually every single field a person could think of. Batman is the sum of his parts, and that sum is above every other human character by a pretty large margin...

well... every other human character not named Doom.

^No sorry but the source I know about, in the DCU that is, rate Batman higher then you do. In H2H higher then in pure MA, that'S granted but H2H he can take about anyone, without PIS.

batman 5/10. with gear he takes it 6/10.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^No sorry but the source I know about, in the DCU that is, rate Batman higher then you do. In H2H higher then in pure MA, that'S granted but H2H he can take about anyone, without PIS.

I think Batman has the potential to beat all the characters I named in a h2h fight, but I don't think it is because he is more or even as skilled as they are. There is more to a fight then just who is more skilled, and once you factor in speed, strength and durability into the equation a lot of those fights arguably end in Batman's favour. A person would be extremely hard pressed to make a concrete argument for any DC street beating Batman in h2h (there are a few, but frankly none of them are well knowns like Shiva or Dragon). I suppose you could say the same thing about skill, but I would disagree. Skill is difficult to quantify by comparing scans because lots of other things (like physical attributes mentioned earlier) need to be factored in and it is hard to find the delineation that separates skill from everything else. What we do have on the subject is a lot of hearsay, peer review and anecdotal evidence, the opinions and thoughts of various characters close to Batman on his placement on a skill hierarchy are well documented. I would never use that type of information to determine who would win a fight, but I feel that in determining a skill hierarchy it is far game.

some people that can beat batman are
karate kid
constantine drakon
white canary
batgirl
maybe shiva
dragon
maybe bronze tiger
maybe connor hawke
grifter
midnighter
warblade
sensei
sensei ll

Originally posted by Prep-Man
some people that can beat batman are
karate kid
constantine drakon
white canary
batgirl
maybe shiva
dragon
maybe bronze tiger
maybe connor hawke
grifter
midnighter
warblade
sensei
sensei ll

That is a decent enough more skilled list (other than Midnighter / Warblade), but the a lot of those guys wouldn't beat Batman, and the ones that would are meta.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't care if you make jabs and chide me, frankly it would liven up the thread if you did. 😎

Bruce returned to Gotham when he was 25 after training / traveling for twelve years. That twelve years wasn't solely devoted to martial arts and fighting either, in that period he also became proficient in virtually every field of science (likely got some business / economics degrees considering his day job), and really every possible hobby or activity on the planet. There is plenty of room for humans to better fighters than him. Batman isn't the best fighter and he has never been billed as such. He is the best detective. Other than criminology and his skills as a detective there is someone better than Batman in virtually every field. What there isn't, is a more rounded character. Look at it this way, in terms of martial prowess Batman is Salieri. He is among the top of his field but not on quite on par with prodigies like Mozart (Dragon / Shiva / Turner)... but the thing that you need to remember is that Batman is Salieri in virtually every single field a person could think of. Batman is the sum of his parts, and that sum is above every other human character by a pretty large margin...

well... every other human character not named Doom.

damn, srank, that was..... beautiful. cry

for the exception of the ws crew, val, constantine, sensei, dragon etc... all have a great shot at beatintg bruce.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You called me an idiot and a hater in your first "rebuttal," so lets not pretend that you are above insults buddy. My insults are just more creative and patronizing. 😉

I like Batman, I like Batman a lot. Hell half of my shelf porn is Batman merch. If I buy a Wolverine action figure or bank, I get a Batman one too to balance the right part of my shelf. What I'm not however is a Batman fanboy. I can objectively place Batman on a skill hierarchy among his peers without the absurd notion that he is the best even crossing my mind. You are a Batman fanboy, and that's fine but you need to own it. I for instance am a Snake-eyes fanboy. I would state on record that I believe Snake-eyes makes Captain America look like a child in a karate class and could defeat the entire Batfamily in h2h... but I am perfectly aware of my bias and inability to be objective on the subject matter.

As ridiculous as it was, Snake Eyes pwning Starscream was pretty funny..

Originally posted by carver9
This is a test of skill. No chi amping for Shang and Batman doesn't have his Bats suit on for this fight.

Who wins out of pure skill alone?

Under these stipulations
Batman 7/10.

I just view Batman overall athleticism to be good and add to that his great skill. Skill that puts him arguably as one of the best, since he has stalemated Cass/Shiva/Karate Kid(Waid).

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You called me an idiot and a hater in your first "rebuttal," so lets not pretend that you are above insults buddy. My insults are just more creative and patronizing. 😉

I like Batman, I like Batman a lot. Hell half of my shelf porn is Batman merch. If I buy a Wolverine action figure or bank, I get a Batman one too to balance the right part of my shelf. What I'm not however is a Batman fanboy. I can objectively place Batman on a skill hierarchy among his peers without the absurd notion that he is the best even crossing my mind. You are a Batman fanboy, and that's fine but you need to own it. I for instance am a Snake-eyes fanboy. I would state on record that I believe Snake-eyes makes Captain America look like a child in a karate class and could defeat the entire Batfamily in h2h... but I am perfectly aware of my bias and inability to be objective on the subject matter.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
[B]^No sorry but the source I know about, in the DCU that is, rate Batman higher then you do. /B]

I'm more of a marvel fan. But I definitely view Bruce in on the top spots and place him ahead of Shiva as the better fighter. Batman own thoughts were that he knows he is one of the best and Shiva and her kind will always come to have a crack at his "title".

A strong case can be made for Bruce that's for sure.

Batman would definitely win this fight given the conditions

"Batman isn't soley focused on martial arts, he is a genius in other fields too. Captain America who is focused mostly on close combat so he should edge him." is one of the arguments used frequently, even by Kurt Busiek who wrote the JLA/Avengers confrontation but, unfortunately for his supporters, we're going by the comics.

There, Batman unrealistically competes with the best, in nigh-every field, no matter how much of a ridiculous small amount of time he's had to master those fields. It's why Grant Morrison calls him even more unrealistic than Superman. And thus, we're judging this by showings. Which, suffice to say, angers quite a few of the Marvel agendas but, I and anybody who is actively engaged in reading Batman, simply don't give a f*ck. 🙂

Everyone in the NHL and NBA are amazing and gifted athletes, among the very best in the world.. but they aren't all Gretzkys or Jordans. That's where Batman falls. He is an amazing martial artists, good enough to compete with the very best fighters and even conceivably win some of the time, he just isn't good enough to beat the best fighters the majority of the time on pure skill. Batman's comic appearances don't contradict that, if anything they they support it.

Originally posted by Philosophía
"Batman isn't soley focused on martial arts, he is a genius in other fields too. Captain America who is focused mostly on close combat so he should edge him." is one of the arguments used frequently, even by Kurt Busiek who wrote the JLA/Avengers confrontation but, unfortunately for his supporters, we're going by the comics.

There, Batman unrealistically competes with the best, in nigh-every field, no matter how much of a ridiculous small amount of time he's had to master those fields. It's why Grant Morrison calls him even more unrealistic than Superman. And thus, we're judging this by showings. Which, suffice to say, angers quite a few of the Marvel agendas but, I and anybody who is actively engaged in reading Batman, simply don't give a f*ck. 🙂

👆