Darth Krayt on his own would be a very hard fought battle, with some chance of a mutual kill. Krayt not only is proficient with lightning himself, but with Dark Transfer he can kill Orbalisks by touching them and pouring the force into their shatterpoints. It doesn't help the One Sith know about Orbalisks.
Krayt + help is a win.
Krayt + all of his inner circle is, as Sidious 66 says, a spite.
Bane's own Lightning damaged the Orbalisks enough to poison him. Krayt's re-directed Lightning burned Azlyn Rae to the point of near-death. If he gets a good blast past Bane's defense, I see something similar happening as on Tython. Krayt's also no slouch with a saber. He likely won't hit the few weak spots in Bane's armor, but I don't see Bane hitting Krayt too easily either.
Sure. I'm not questiong Krayt's ability to harm Bane, I'm questioning his abilty to hit him. For example, Dooku could give LotF Luke hell if his FL got through his defenses... But for some reason I don't think this will happen. That applies to this case as well Bane should more than able to defend against Krayt's FL. And lets be honest, Krayt isn't going to be able to tank a blast of Bane's lightning either.
And sure, Krayt isn't a slouch in the saber department. But against even PoD Bane I would argue he is badly outmached. (Afterall, Bane matched Kas'im a guy whose saber skills are insane as he is mentioned as being one of the greatest Sith duelists ever.) And once the Sith'ari is fully armored in his lightsaber resistant parasites, Krayt is downright screwed.
In all of Legacy, Krayt was easily the strongest with a saber. I don't think anyone will 'badly outmatch' the top duelist of the entire era. Krayt's focus, pre-rebirth at least, seemed to be on his physical might. Match, sure, but Bane met multiple people in his life able to match him in sabers, aside from Kas'im there was Raskta Lsu as well. Even if Bane has an edge physically (he does have the orbalisks after all), it shouldn't be a big one.
Krayt does have shatterpoints, and also he could do dirty tricks that'd be suicidal for anyone but him too. For example, he could let himself be stabbed through in order for a chance to do Dark Transfer and kill the orbalisks or possibly Bane himself.
Originally posted by ares834My point wasn't that the match will play out like Pokemon, where once you activate your attack, your accuracy will roll against his speed and your attack will roll against his defense to harm his HP.
Sure. I'm not questiong Krayt's ability to harm Bane, I'm questioning his abilty to hit him. For example, Dooku could give LotF Luke hell if his FL got through his defenses... But for some reason I don't think this will happen. That applies to this case as well Bane should more than able to defend against Krayt's FL. And lets be honest, Krayt isn't going to be able to tank a blast of Bane's lightning either.
And sure, Krayt isn't a slouch in the saber department. But against even PoD Bane I would argue he is badly outmached. (Afterall, Bane matched Kas'im a guy whose saber skills are insane as he is mentioned as being one of the greatest Sith duelists ever.) And once the Sith'ari is fully armored in his lightsaber resistant parasites, Krayt is downright screwed.
I'm saying if Krayt hits Bane with Lightning, Bane's going down thanks to his armor's poison. I'm also saying that, even though Krayt will likely never hit the small weakness in Bane's armor, Bane's not going to defeat Krayt's strength and skill with a blade without a considerable lengthy duel. Krayt is a comic, and Bane is text, so without moving visuals to gauge, we can't accurately compare the speed and dexterity of two Dark Lords who are more than a millennium apart. As it is I've yet to see or read anything that, in my mind, puts either Bane's or Krayt's bladework above the other. Bane's armor is the deal breaker in both him losing, and winning, and I see Bane defeating Krayt in a protracted and tiring battle.
I also put no stock in to his role as the Sith'ari, nor Kas'im's reputation. Call me a buzzkill, but I'm having trouble using an in-universe student's opinion on Kas'im as either accurate, or useful. Even if absolutely true, it only covers up until 1,000 BBY, and if not true, then it's useless.
Bane's ability to block every single rain drop in a torrential downpour with his sword is unquestionably the single greatest feat we maybe have ever seen with a lightsaber. Seriously, stand in a torrential downpour and just think about it. Last week I stood in a torrential downpour, and I changed my mind about Bane.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
My point wasn't that the match will play out like Pokemon, where once you activate your attack, your accuracy will roll against his speed and your attack will roll against his defense to harm his HP.
Yep. Because that was what I was saying...
I'm saying if Krayt hits Bane with Lightning, Bane's going down thanks to his armor's poison.
And I agree. However, once again, I question Krayt's abilty to get past Bane's defenses.
Krayt is a comic, and Bane is text, so without moving visuals to gauge, we can't accurately compare the speed and dexterity of two Dark Lords who are more than a millennium apart.
Rather ture. However, Krayt really doesn't have that many great quantifiable lightsaber feats. His best is probablly not losing to Obi-Wan that badly.
I also put no stock in to his role as the Sith'ari, nor Kas'im's reputation. Call me a buzzkill, but I'm having trouble using an in-universe student's opinion on Kas'im as either accurate, or useful. Even if absolutely true, it only covers up until 1,000 BBY, and if not true, then it's useless.
My bad. I wasn't actually saying that he wins because he is the Sith'ari, rather I just used the term to refer to Bane because it sounds good. Secondly, Kas'im was called one of the greatest duelest not by Bane but the narrator.
I think Krayt would maybe put up some kind of struggle against Bane, but it won't be too long before Bane overpowers him. Bane's FL is far more powerful than Krayt's and is probably too much for Krayt to handle. Bane's skill strength in TK was such that his force wave was powerful enough to bring a temple down, and even turned Kas'im's bones to liquide (not sure how that works, BTW), and that's not even half of what he has been shown to do.
If this is Krayt with his armor, it gives Bane an even greater advantage in power, since Krayt was not as powerful as his resurrected self.
Originally posted by ares834Was it? I know it's what I was saying.
Yep. Because that was what I was saying...
Originally posted by ares834So do I.
And I agree. However, once again, I question Krayt's abilty to get past Bane's defenses.
Originally posted by ares834And 140 years later his skill hasn't improved. That's how he was able to stave off an ambush of Knights and Jedi and a Karness Muur-infused Morne. Lack of saber practice also didn't help him slice his way past Imperial Knights right to Fel's throne. Being able to barely beat Obi-Wan is also what kept him the head of a multi-generational hidden Sith Order of thousands.
Rather ture. However, Krayt really doesn't have that many great quantifiable lightsaber feats. His best is probablly not losing to Obi-Wan that badly.
Originally posted by ares834Whom if I remember correctly is a third-person limited narrator speaking out of Bane's perspective, ala Harry Potter (thank you, Nai, wherever he may be). I'm not going to hold a character's opinion about his master relative to the ages as much of a fact. I'm gonna hold it as his opinion. Now if an official character guide or chronology describes Kas'im that way, that's a whole different story.
My bad. I wasn't actually saying that he wins because he is the Sith'ari, rather I just used the term to refer to Bane because it sounds good. Secondly, Kas'im was called one of the greatest duelest not by Bane but the narrator.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And 140 years later his skill hasn't improved. That's how he was able to stave off an ambush of Knights and Jedi and a Karness Muur-infused Morne. Lack of saber practice also didn't help him slice his way past Imperial Knights right to Fel's throne. Being able to barely beat Obi-Wan is also what kept him the head of a multi-generational hidden Sith Order of thousands.
They could have improved but nothing has explicity said they have. Furthermore, we don't know how skilled those Imperial Knights were hence why I said quantifiable and during the ambush he never used his saber but relied on force powers to hold off his enemies.
Edit: And Krayt lost to Obi-Wan he didn't win.
Whom if I remember correctly is a third-person limited narrator speaking out of Bane's perspective, ala Harry Potter (thank you, Nai, wherever he may be). I'm not going to hold a character's opinion about his master relative to the ages as much of a fact. I'm gonna hold it as his opinion. Now if an official character guide or chronology describes Kas'im that way, that's a whole different story.
And despite what Nai said Third person limited does not mean everything in the novel are the beliefs and thoughts of the main character. Many of them would still be "facts" however, it merley limits the narriation to what the main character would know. It's not like the character is relating the story to use.
Furthermore, PoD tells the stroy from multiple character's perspectives something that limited hardly ever does.
Originally posted by ares834Fair enough. Can't definitively say his saber skills have improved one iota in 140 years. Can't say they haven't either. Regardless, relying solely on his overbearing Force powers is going to prove to be handy practise when facing Bane.
They could have improved but nothing has explicity said they have. Furthermore, we don't know how skille dthose Imperial Knights were and during th ambush he never used his saber but relied on force powers to hold off his enemies.
Originally posted by ares834No, it doesn't mean everything ever said was of the main protagonist, and I won't claim to be able to recall vividly. The Russian site also won't let me see PoD in anything other than gibberish so I can't go searching for the Bane-to-Vader quote. Do you have it? Page number, etc.
And despite what Nai said Third person limited does not mean everything in the novel are the beliefs and thoughts of the main character. Many of them would still be "facts" however, it merley limits the narriation to what the main character would know. For example, if PoD was limited it wouldn't talk about how Bane's fall parrelels Vader's.
Furthermore, PoD tells the stroy from multiple character's perspectives something that limited hardly ever does.
Telling the story from multiple character's in-universe third-person limited perspective, is still third-person limited perspective. That just means lack of omniscience as seen from many viewpoints.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Regardless, relying solely on his overbearing Force powers is going to prove to be handy practise when facing Bane.
Yes, it is impressive.
No, it doesn't mean everything ever said was of the main protagonist, and I won't claim to be able to recall vividly. The Russian site also won't let me see PoD in anything other than gibberish so I can't go searching for the Bane-to-Vader quote. Do you have it? Page number, etc.
Yeah, I removed that part from my post because it was confusing. It isn't found in the book I was just posting something that limited would be unable to do. My point was a limited narriator is almost always a reliable narrator.
Telling the story from multiple character's in-universe third-person limited perspective, is still third-person limited perspective. That just means lack of omniscience as seen from many viewpoints.
Sure. However, a third-person limited almost always limits it to one character. In fact, by switching viewpoints, one is doing the exact oppoiste what limited is used for. IE telling information that the main character is unable to know. And PoD has many diffrent PoV's: Bane, Kas'im, Quordis, Rain, Lord Hoth, etc...
Third person limited enables the author to explore multiple perspectives and present the story with some measure of ambiguity as opposed to a full-on omniscient narrator, who knows and details every facet of the story to the reader.
Strictly speaking, the musings or words of a character in a third person limited story aren't necessarily factual simply because that character isn't omniscient. On the other hand, Karpyshyn has gone on record with the whole Bane-Zannah-soul-battle fiasco as saying he's a relatively straightforward author who tries not to deceive or complicate things for the reader, trying to make his characters reliable. (Which is probably why his books are fairly simple and relatively uninteresting.)