Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It could be made simpler perhaps (and not all regulators said that). It doesn't relieve one of responsibility to what they agreed to and signed on.
Quite a few regulators said so and they're professionals in the field. It's not a stretch to say that the average person had no way of understanding the contract. Of course if you realize you don't understand it should be taken as a reason not to sign.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosI know a number have. But a large number do.
Quite a few regulators said so and they're professionals in the field. It's not a stretch to say that the average person had no way of understanding the contract. Of course if you realize you don't understand it should be taken as a reason not to sign.
It's no different than laws or other legal contracts. I'd take a professional's advice on the matter on a large contract if I didn't understand it.
Affording something isn't just paying the flat rate. It's paying maintenance, legal costs, and if you need a lawyer or an accountants advice to pay for it. Many people cheap out or can't afford that and it costs them later. If I'm signing something, especially something that large, I would definitely do so.
Now a large number of students do sign anything to pay for college. When when students get these loans they have to read and fill out a Q and A program showing they understand it. I think many just breeze through it to get the loan though.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It could be made simpler perhaps (and not all regulators said that). It doesn't relieve one of responsibility to what they agreed to and signed on.It goes back to what I said about Americans and financial literacy. Most have little savings or anything for retirement. Most don't understand interest or the fact that a 0% interest loan goes up dramatically after a specified period of time, so they just sign the loan.
People who do research (especially on a purchase that large) know that by default. Why anybody would take out large sums of money and not know what they're getting into is beyond.
so, I bare no fault if I deceive you? It is your fault for being deceived?
nobody is saying individuals have no role to play, but you can't honestly sit there and think banks don't act in predatory ways with their lending. I refuse to believe that, you are an intelligent person
Originally posted by inimalist
so, I bare no fault if I deceive you? It is your fault for being deceived?nobody is saying individuals have no role to play, but you can't honestly sit there and think banks don't act in predatory ways with their lending. I refuse to believe that, you are an intelligent person
I agree with him. I interpreted what he said as: "within in the framework of sound, yet unstifling, regulation."
If you think of it that way, you can have your cake and eat it, too.
Why?
Because you could end up with contracts that say:
But with the boopty badd booms, you have to wiggy wiggle woms with the popety naynoos.
Meaning, if you don't spin around 3 times while getting up, but directly after signing, your interest becomes 5000% as soon as you leave the building. The person would have no way of knowing. How contract language is now, that's how it reads to the uneducated...which is part of what your point is, correct?
So I do get what you're saying but it just doesn't make sense if that's what he said was okay.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree with him. I interpreted what he said as: "within in the framework of sound, yet unstifling, regulation."If you think of it that way, you can have your cake and eat it, too.
Why?
Because you could end up with contracts that say:
But with the boopty badd booms, you have to wiggy wiggle woms with the popety naynoos.
Meaning, if you don't spin around 3 times while getting up, but directly after signing, your interest becomes 5000% as soon as you leave the building. The person would have no way of knowing. How contract language is now, that's how it reads to the uneducated...which is part of what your point is, correct?
So I do get what you're saying but it just doesn't make sense if that's what he said was okay.
...
you guys are aware that banks were outright lying to their customers about the quality of the stock and mortgage options they were getting?
like, serious federal fraud?
Originally posted by inimalist
...you guys are aware that banks were outright lying to their customers about the quality of the stock and mortgage options they were getting?
like, serious federal fraud?
That sounds like a criminal matter.
I didn't read anywhere where criminal actions were being executed in the banking industry in a large fashion. I did read/hear that they gave out poorly backed loans to poorly qualifying individuals.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That sounds like a criminal matter.I didn't read anywhere where criminal actions were being executed in the banking industry in a large fashion. I did read/hear that they gave out poorly backed loans to poorly qualifying individuals.
srsly?
they were selling stock they described in internal emails as "shit" as triple A rated (meaning, as secure as government bonds). They were approving people for loans they knew they couldn't pay, because it allowed them to bundle it as these toxic stocks, which would then be triple A rated. There was absolutely no accountability, because if the people didn't pay, the bank didn't lose any money.
I hate to be all like "watch this movie".... but, check out Inside Job, a doc about the recession
major banking institutions have for decades operated in ways very much comparable to organized criminal groups, up to and including engaging in activities that are criminal.
There is just no political will to prosecute the banks, in fact, the political establishment has all but given them immunity from prosecution (though I think the NY DA is going after them).
I can't believe you haven't heard this... 😐 I don't mean that as an insult, I mean, I figured Americans would be all over this type of thing more than some half-interested Canadian...
Originally posted by inimalist
srsly?they were selling stock they described in internal emails as "shit" as triple A rated (meaning, as secure as government bonds). They were approving people for loans they knew they couldn't pay, because it allowed them to bundle it as these toxic stocks, which would then be triple A rated. There was absolutely no accountability, because if the people didn't pay, the bank didn't lose any money.
I hate to be all like "watch this movie".... but, check out Inside Job, a doc about the recession
major banking institutions have for decades operated in ways very much comparable to organized criminal groups, up to and including engaging in activities that are criminal.
There is just no political will to prosecute the banks, in fact, the political establishment has all but given them immunity from prosecution (though I think the NY DA is going after them).
I can't believe you haven't heard this... 😐 I don't mean that as an insult, I mean, I figured Americans would be all over this type of thing more than some half-interested Canadian...
I could have sworn the triple A rating came from an outside party.
I read the rest, later.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I could have sworn the triple A rating came from an outside party.I read the rest, later.
it does
the corruption was endemic
EDIT: their defense isn't that the stocks were actually triple A, but that under freedom of speech, such ratings only reflect "opinions", even though these people knew the stocks were toxic. It was a cabal of people acquiring terrible loans, packaging them as stock options, than having them rated as triple A, so they could re-sell them.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think people should pay the debts they borrow. If you can't afford to take out the money then don't do it. People take out money and refuse to pay it back, or file bankruptcy and make no effort to pay anything back show a sign of a morality issue.I've had customers at times order services and then try to weasel out of them. Which is why I changed my payment services (also for the convenience). I want my money for the service my company performed and so would anyone else.
Also people who don't pay back loans hurt everyone (like the mortgage crisis). Somebody's paying for the difference and it is all of us. In the forms of higher taxes, higher interest rates, harder time getting loans or applying for mortgages (to those who are actually responsible). It ends up hurting everyone. People need to look at their finances closer, especially with student loans since they can't be forgiven. Those who go and take out the loans and then find themselves making $12 an hour may be disappointed when the they have debt close to or over 6 figures.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=544368
The more you look into it the more depressing it is
Seriously, it's time to start renegotiating "free trade" agreements and penalize corporations who send jobs overseas.
Originally posted by The Dark CloudWhy should they? Business should be able to work where they want, just like you shop where you want or work where you want.
The more you look into it the more depressing it isSeriously, it's time to start renegotiating "free trade" agreements and penalize corporations who send jobs overseas.
How did that video above take away from people who sign things they shouldn't and then refuse to pay back their debts? If you borrow money, you must pay it back.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Why should they? Business should be able to work where they want, just like you shop where you want or work where you want.How did that video above take away from people who sign things they shouldn't and then refuse to pay back their debts? If you borrow money, you must pay it back.
We need to do what's best for the citizens of our country, not just the global elite.
And as for the video, can't you see what a big corrupt racket, and yes, racket is the proper description, the government and banks are pulling here? Because some don't pay their mortgages, I know some are abusing the system here but many simply aren't able to, you can't pay with money you don't have, the government is stealing the taxpayers money and giving it to the banks.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Why should they? Business should be able to work where they want, just like you shop where you want or work where you want.How did that video above take away from people who sign things they shouldn't and then refuse to pay back their debts? If you borrow money, you must pay it back.
But they only took those loans because the banks lied to them and told them they would be able to pay it back easily. And anyway it is not like they "refused" to pay the debt; they were literally incapable of doing so.
BTW, even if you pay your mortgage, that doesn't mean your house is safe from foreclosure. Like I said, banks have been committing fraud and foreclosing on houses that they never even owned in the first place. They don't keep all the paperwork, they just make it up.