Who is more evil, Voldemort or Darth Sidious ?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well your welcome to believe whatever you like, but that doesn't make my opinion less valid.

Do you not have respect for your mother?

Now let's see if we can get somewhere. Palptine was also a racist against anyone who wasn't human, and he would kill if he saw fit. Voldemort just may not have as much self control. So it sounds like your comparing a brute to a evil genius. I don't see any feminine traits in Sidious.

Now onto cruelty. Both are cruel. However, I give Voldemort the edge cause he will just lash out at anything no matter what. Palptine has more self control. However Palpatine we have seen will lash out and destroy I feel he chooses to. With that being said, both are cruel and manipulative, but Sidious is more manipulative than Voldemort is cruel.

Where on earth did you get that from ? We are talking about your high stress life not my own.

When in the films is his racism noted ? Let's forget that he had Maul as his apprentice (who isn't human thus decimating your silly point) but he also had Grievous working for his next apprentice Dooku. Voldemort was a genius hence his rise to power while sacking the Ministry. Even Albus Dumbledore plotted for years and still died when he matched wits against the dark lord. Two faces is what women do. They are very duplicitous especially around other women. That's Palpatine in a nutshell.

Again you are confusing what we are addressing. We aren't addressing either killing someone who gets in their way as both freely do so but cruelty is another matter altogether. You seem unbelievably stupid in that you can't even articulate your own points and expect me to do so. It's the shitty people like you who should not debate online because all you end up doing is drawing attention to your own ineptitude.

I'd like to see film examples of his racism. You made the claim so the onus is on you since I can prove Voldemort is racist.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your reasoning makes your opinion look uninformed and ridiculous. What a word, eh ?

Where on earth did you get that from ? We are talking about your high stress life not my own.

When in the films is his racism noted ? Let's forget that he had Maul as his apprentice (who isn't human thus decimating your silly point) but he also had Grievous working for his next apprentice Dooku. Voldemort was a genius hence his rise to power while sacking the Ministry. Even Albus Dumbledore plotted for years and still died when he matched wits against the dark lord. Two faces is what women do. They are very duplicitous especially around other women. That's Palpatine in a nutshell.

Again you are confusing what we are addressing. We aren't addressing either killing someone who gets in their way as both freely do so but cruelty is another matter altogether. You seem unbelievably stupid in that you can't even articulate your own points and expect me to do so. It's the shitty people like you who should not debate online because all you end up doing is drawing attention to your own ineptitude.

In your own view.

It was a question since your saying I need to stand up to my mom I feel she asked me to clean my room.

His racism isn't rent and center or the staple of his movement like Voldemorts was. Maul is a humanoid. His racism toward non human species is seen in his polices when he is emperor. You think that just cause he had Grevious working for Dooku that mean she likes him? Keep the laughs coming Quan. Yea Voldkrt was smart I actaully said thy. I'm saying when you compare him to Palpatine, Palpatine is superior. This isn't about Dumbleodre ve Voldemort and you don't want to get into that debate. Still not seeing the feminine traits. Your confusing behind the stage works with feminine qualities.

No that is cruelty. It's an aspect of cruelty. Also if you wanna look at cruelty it's very much possible Palptine comes out on top. In OOTP, Snape has the quote describing Voldemort of making people beg for death and then he kill someone them. Part of this is seen in the film when he tries to take Harry down from the inside. Compare that to what we see Palptine do. He will take you, manipulate you into thinking he's your friend then he will take everything away from you, and subjugate you to his rule and making sure you know everyday of your life that there is no way out, no way to escape him, as well as torture. There are fates worse than death Quan.

Thanks for the laughs. Keep 'me coming.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
In your own view.

It was a question since your saying I need to stand up to my mom I feel she asked me to clean my room.

His racism isn't rent and center or the staple of his movement like Voldemorts was. Maul is a humanoid. His racism toward non human species is seen in his polices when he is emperor. You think that just cause he had Grevious working for Dooku that mean she likes him? Keep the laughs coming Quan. Yea Voldkrt was smart I actaully said thy. I'm saying when you compare him to Palpatine, Palpatine is superior. This isn't about Dumbleodre ve Voldemort and you don't want to get into that debate. Still not seeing the feminine traits. Your confusing behind the stage works with feminine qualities.

No that is cruelty. It's an aspect of cruelty. Also if you wanna look at cruelty it's very much possible Palptine comes out on top. In OOTP, Snape has the quote describing Voldemort of making people beg for death and then he kill someone them. Part of this is seen in the film when he tries to take Harry down from the inside. Compare that to what we see Palptine do. He will take you, manipulate you into thinking he's your friend then he will take everything away from you, and subjugate you to his rule and making sure you know everyday of your life that there is no way out, no way to escape him, as well as torture. There are fates worse than death Quan.

Thanks for the laughs. Keep 'me coming.

You have yet to cite a specific example of his racism. You also said anyone who wasn't human not humanoid. The sign of a poor debater is changing his story from post to post without one legitimate example. I didn't say you claimed his entire movement was based off racism but you claimed he was racist. If you can't back your claims you're a joke. It's that simple.

Why is Palpatine superior ? You said he was but haven't cited anything alluding to that fact. He was an unknown against a shitty Jedi council. He would sit in the room with the Jedi conversing at times so he really had a huge advantage due to his feminine duplicity.

Another change in your post to now you're claiming Palpatine might be more cruel. You are an idiot who jumps all around the place whenever anyone engages you. You're a board joke. Making someone beg for death while torturing them is very cruel. Just killing them without suffering wouldn't be cruel. You really don't even grasp what a cruel act is hence your pitiful responses which change post to post.

What are you talking about ? Palpatine saved Vader's life and Vader ended up killing him. Palpatine is so inept his number two guy ended up killing him. Decades of service and he killed the whacky old coot.

😂 😂 😂

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Tarkin was not an admiral. He was a governor/Grand Moff. When the Emperor dissolved the Imperial senate, he gave each governor full control of their territories. Among them, his favorite was Tarkin. That is why he put Tarkin in charge of the Death Star.

I provided 2 scenes where Vader was being portrayed to at least took orders from Tarkin on certain things or at least percieved by some to be of lower rank.

Another strong example would be when Tarkin warned Vader that the tracking device they put in the Mill. Falcon "better work" as he was "taking an awful risk" in letting the Falcon escape. Had Vader outranked Tarkin at that time (as with any chain of command) the risk would have been on Vader (as he was the one that suggested the method, and thus would have just given the orders, and is thus, the accountable party).

If you could provide scenes where Vader excersized his authority over Tarkin or at least was implied to be of higher rank in the DS during SW, pls provide them.

Now I'm not saying that Tarkin is Vader's commanding officer. I always saw Vader as more "outside" the chain of command and functioned at the direct command of the Emperor. But at the same time, where the DS is concerned, Tarkin appeared to have direct control given by the Emperor. That much was clear.

It seemed to me the Death Star operated much like a naval vessel. The Captain was in charge and a General of say... the Army was on board. In the grand scheme of things the General outranked the Captain but the Captain had authority of everything happening on the ship.

For any of you too 'neurologically diverse' to understand a comparison. Tarkin is the Captain and Vader the General in this scenario.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well if you want to just march to the beat of her drum by all means continue.

You have yet to cite a specific example of his racism. You also said anyone who wasn't human not humanoid. The sign of a poor debater is changing his story from post to post without one legitimate example. I didn't say you claimed his entire movement was based off racism but you claimed he was racist. If you can't back your claims you're a joke. It's that simple.

Why is Palpatine superior ? You said he was but haven't cited anything alluding to that fact. He was an unknown against a shitty Jedi council. He would sit in the room with the Jedi conversing at times so he really had a huge advantage due to his feminine duplicity.

Another change in your post to now you're claiming Palpatine might be more cruel. You are an idiot who jumps all around the place whenever anyone engages you. You're a board joke. Making someone beg for death while torturing them is very cruel. Just killing them without suffering wouldn't be cruel. You really don't even grasp what a cruel act is hence your pitiful responses which change post to post.

What are you talking about ? Palpatine saved Vader's life and Vader ended up killing him. Palpatine is so inept his number two guy ended up killing him. Decades of service and he killed the whacky old coot.

😂 😂 😂

😂

I haven't changed my story. Also, you think you need to like someone to work with them? Think about it. It's kind of hard in the movie to find an example of his racism when he demonstrates in his policies as emperor, and he isn't seen in A New Hope, seen through hologram once in Empire Strikes Back, and his time in ROTJ was centered around Luke. So with that I retain that he was in fact a racist, but I'll admit there is no movie evidence. Book possibly but not movie Andrea this is the movie vs forum. The sign of a poor debator is trolling your opponent.

Palpatine is superior because his edge in manipulation is much larger than Voldemorts edge in cruelty. Then comparing them on cruelty, Voldemort has tortured people, and then ended them, as we heard from Snape in OOTP. However, we see from Palpatine front and center with Vader, he will take you, manipulate you against the people you care about(Obi Wan) make you think they are your enemy, then turn you into his pawn. Then every day of your life's make sure you know you are his and can't escape even though you try desperately. That is far worse than just being killed. It's a fate worse than death. So, with that being said, Voldemort focuses more on being cruel and has tortured and gone the whole 9 yards, but Palpatine has a case.

Manipulation is a no brainer. Palpatine is a much better manipulation. Palpatine rose from Senator to Chancellor, to Emperor, manipulated Jedi, and was able to predict and fool so many people alongside the way. Voldemort has nothing that comes close.

I didn't change it. I said that Palpatine has a case to be made which he does for the reasons to be named. I still give Voldemort the edge but it's very slight. I actually know what cruel is. Being tortured and then being killed is cruel. However subjugation, without hope is possibly worse. Think about it.

😂 Take your own advice and look at context.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Until shortly before ESB, Vader typically operated outside the formal chain of command. His standing was entirely based on the Emperor's discretion.

Tarkin definitely barked an order to Vader in ANH and Vader definitely obeyed it. Was that due to superior rank? Or simply because Tarkin commanded Vader's respect? Perhaps both?

I'm sure you could make an argument any which way. But one thing is damn certain: Vader wasn't the man in charge in ANH.

Canonically, Vader didn't formally "outrank" anybody til ESB.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
😂

I haven't changed my story. Also, you think you need to like someone to work with them? Think about it. It's kind of hard in the movie to find an example of his racism when he demonstrates in his policies as emperor, and he isn't seen in A New Hope, seen through hologram once in Empire Strikes Back, and his time in ROTJ was centered around Luke. So with that I retain that he was in fact a racist, but I'll admit there is no movie evidence. Book possibly but not movie Andrea this is the movie vs forum. The sign of a poor debator is trolling your opponent.

Palpatine is superior because his edge in manipulation is much larger than Voldemorts edge in cruelty. Then comparing them on cruelty, Voldemort has tortured people, and then ended them, as we heard from Snape in OOTP. However, we see from Palpatine front and center with Vader, he will take you, manipulate you against the people you care about(Obi Wan) make you think they are your enemy, then turn you into his pawn. Then every day of your life's make sure you know you are his and can't escape even though you try desperately. That is far worse than just being killed. It's a fate worse than death. So, with that being said, Voldemort focuses more on being cruel and has tortured and gone the whole 9 yards, but Palpatine has a case.

Manipulation is a no brainer. Palpatine is a much better manipulation. Palpatine rose from Senator to Chancellor, to Emperor, manipulated Jedi, and was able to predict and fool so many people alongside the way. Voldemort has nothing that comes close.

I didn't change it. I said that Palpatine has a case to be made which he does for the reasons to be named. I still give Voldemort the edge but it's very slight. I actually know what cruel is. Being tortured and then being killed is cruel. However subjugation, without hope is possibly worse. Think about it.

😂 Take your own advice and look at context.

It helps that Palpatine was the only non stupid person in the galaxy.

YouTube video

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
😂

I haven't changed my story. Also, you think you need to like someone to work with them? Think about it. It's kind of hard in the movie to find an example of his racism when he demonstrates in his policies as emperor, and he isn't seen in A New Hope, seen through hologram once in Empire Strikes Back, and his time in ROTJ was centered around Luke. So with that I retain that he was in fact a racist, but I'll admit there is no movie evidence. Book possibly but not movie Andrea this is the movie vs forum. The sign of a poor debator is trolling your opponent.

Palpatine is superior because his edge in manipulation is much larger than Voldemorts edge in cruelty. Then comparing them on cruelty, Voldemort has tortured people, and then ended them, as we heard from Snape in OOTP. However, we see from Palpatine front and center with Vader, he will take you, manipulate you against the people you care about(Obi Wan) make you think they are your enemy, then turn you into his pawn. Then every day of your life's make sure you know you are his and can't escape even though you try desperately. That is far worse than just being killed. It's a fate worse than death. So, with that being said, Voldemort focuses more on being cruel and has tortured and gone the whole 9 yards, but Palpatine has a case.
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Manipulation is a no brainer. Palpatine is a much better manipulation. Palpatine rose from Senator to Chancellor, to Emperor, manipulated Jedi, and was able to predict and fool so many people alongside the way. Voldemort has nothing that comes close.

I didn't change it. I said that Palpatine has a case to be made which he does for the reasons to be named. I still give Voldemort the edge but it's very slight. I actually know what cruel is. Being tortured and then being killed is cruel. However subjugation, without hope is possibly worse. Think about it.

😂 Take your own advice and look at context. [/B]

Palpatine tried to train someone who would surpass him which isn't cruel at all. Vader was dismembered by Kenobi which altered his plans. Vader showed there was hope since he ended Palpatine in Rotj.

I have and even from your own nonsensical logic it supports Voldemort in this thread. Be honest and submit to the true dark lord.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you concede the point here since this is the films only. Voldemort is the racist since there is loads of evidence while you have loads of excuses of why there are no examples. Concession accepted.

Palpatine viewed the Jedi as the enemy as they attacked him first. Anakin also saw the Jedi from his pov as evil. Again Palpatine didn't seek to torture Vader and didn't plan on killing Padme, etc. This ended up occurring but that's just as the cards fell. This wasn't a long drawn out calculated plan of torture and cruelty. Vader was saved from the throes of death by Palpatine whom believed Vader would surpass him in power. He was fine with this as well since he openly bragged to Yoda.

I disagree. Palpatine was better at being duplicitous but Voldemort didn't need to be. Palpatine's intentions weren't known to the public and his enemies weren't aware of his intentions until rots. Voldemort's intentions were known and he faced against much wiser opposition because let's face it the Jedi were clods. No one compares to Albus Dumbledore and Snape from the likes of the pt Jedi.

Palpatine tried to train someone who would surpass him which isn't cruel at all. Vader was dismembered by Kenobi which altered his plans. Vader showed there was hope since he ended Palpatine in Rotj.

I have and even from your own nonsensical logic it supports Voldemort in this thread. Be honest and submit to the true dark lord.

No, I concede there's no explicitt show of racism in the films, however there I see racism from Palpatine to non human and potential humanoid beings. Voldemorts crusade was geared toward muggles and Harry so his prejudice wa more front and center.

There you go. Now when did Anakin say the Jedi were evil? He says it at the climax at the very end when he is a SITH. However up until his conversion he beli fed strongly the Jedi were the protectors of the Galaxy the "good guys". That's shows Palpatines manipulation of Anakin. Your looking at torture as a physical pain. It's more than just physical. It's mental and emotional pain as well. So something has to be planed out to be cruel? Your pathetic.

So where's your proof? What examples are there in the films that Voldemorts manipulations are comparable to Sidious? You honestly just proved my point. By doing his deeds in the shadows, he would of course need to manipulate and lie a lot more. With Voldemort being so open with his plans as you say he can just be blatant. As we saw in the films with manipulation, we don't know the circumstances by which he got on the back of Quirrel's head, manipulated Ginny, to no ends, killing no one and only lost a horcrux, hardly mentioned in POA, Barry Crouch manipulated everyone, but then got caught and only Cedric died, was hiding in OOTP, used Draco but didn't really manipulate him at all to kill Dumbledore, but actually got his plan to backfire, got the elder wand in part 1, then died in Part 2. Nothing impresses me.

If you honestly thought Sidious was going to train Anakin to be more powerful than him and that was the end all be all then you are an idiot. Thanks for another laugh.

No you haven't. Look at the context.

Quan is so good for a laugh.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
No, I concede there's no explicitt show of racism in the films, however there I see racism from Palpatine to non human and potential humanoid beings. Voldemorts crusade was geared toward muggles and Harry so his prejudice wa more front and center.

There you go. Now when did Anakin say the Jedi were evil? He says it at the climax at the very end when he is a SITH. However up until his conversion he beli fed strongly the Jedi were the protectors of the Galaxy the "good guys". That's shows Palpatines manipulation of Anakin. Your looking at torture as a physical pain. It's more than just physical. It's mental and emotional pain as well. So something has to be planed out to be cruel? Your pathetic.

[/B]

So where's your proof? What examples are there in the films that Voldemorts manipulations are comparable to Sidious? You honestly just proved my point. By doing his deeds in the shadows, he would of course need to manipulate and lie a lot more. With Voldemort being so open with his plans as you say he can just be blatant. As we saw in the films with manipulation, we don't know the circumstances by which he got on the back of Quirrel's head, manipulated Ginny, to no ends, killing no one and only lost a horcrux, hardly mentioned in POA, Barry Crouch manipulated everyone, but then got caught and only Cedric died, was hiding in OOTP, used Draco but didn't really manipulate him at all to kill Dumbledore, but actually got his plan to backfire, got the elder wand in part 1, then died in Part 2. Nothing impresses me.

If you honestly thought Sidious was going to train Anakin to be more powerful than him and that was the end all be all then you are an idiot. Thanks for another laugh.

No you haven't. Look at the context. [/B]

Your next ramblings make no sense other than its a poor attempt to diminish his reign of terror in the films. You display no form of coherence or intelligence in your inane ramblings.

Palpatine said he would become more powerful than him and you believe this to be a cruel act. Tell me again what you believe the word cruel means. Your posts are further evidence you have no earthly idea what you're even discussing at this point.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Quan is so good for a laugh.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you concede you have no proof as per the movie forums other tha your silly little fancies. You concede I take it.

It shows Anakin was all over the place and Windu did try to murder Palpatine. That wasn't the Jedi way. Anakin was manipulated but Palpatine looked out for him and took care of him. You're an idiot. Vader planned on overthrowing him in rots.

That doesn't prove he's more evil just more duplicitous and cowardly IMO. Lying isn't necessarily evil anyways. Voldemort went after a baby and people still followed him because they were scared utterly shitless of him. Palpatine knew he could never pull that off since he doesn't have the fear Voldemort built up in his own universe.

Your next ramblings make no sense other than its a poor attempt to diminish his reign of terror in the films. You display no form of coherence or intelligence in your inane ramblings.

Palpatine said he would become more powerful than him and you believe this to be a cruel act. Tell me again what you believe the word cruel means. Your posts are further evidence you have no earthly idea what you're even discussing at this point.

He took care of him so he could control him. That's the point. Look at Sidious' personality. You think he really wanted to be a father figure to Anakin. He wanted to use Anakin's potential for his own uses. Instead overthrowing he ended up being Palps servant for the next 20+ years.

Finally glad you admit something is just your opinion and not fact. Actually yes it does prove for how evil you are. Manipulation is a factor in how evil you are. To the range and magnitude you do so. Oh of course lying isn't necessarily eveil, but come on now be at least a little smart and see that these two especially Sidious lies are evil. No, they followed Voldemort because they believed in the cause. Look at Igor Kargoraff, he was a former death eater, snitched out and went into hiding as a death eater. The Malfoys abanded him, Bellatrix was just loyal. Yes there was fear but so were there other things as well.

You don't think Sidious commanded any fear. Do I need to remind you of Mauls reaction to Sidious on Mandalore?

No, what you call ramblings was a break down of what Voldemort did. Compare it to Sidious, Voldemort is second rate. This is backed up by how almost you can do is say what I did was rambling and offer no actual rebuttal except your own opinion which is useless.

Through his potential yes he would become more powerful, that's said in the films, but to the extent you think that was it shows your lack of analytical skills. Now show me you know how to analyze and look at the full picture and not be a one sided, idiot.

😂

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
He took care of him so he could control him. That's the point. Look at Sidious' personality. You think he really wanted to be a father figure to Anakin. He wanted to use Anakin's potential for his own uses. Instead overthrowing he ended up being Palps servant for the next 20+ years.

Finally glad you admit something is just your opinion and not fact. Actually yes it does prove for how evil you are. Manipulation is a factor in how evil you are. To the range and magnitude you do so. Oh of course lying isn't necessarily eveil, but come on now be at least a little smart and see that these two especially Sidious lies are evil. No, they followed Voldemort because they believed in the cause. Look at Igor Kargoraff, he was a former death eater, snitched out and went into hiding as a death eater. The Malfoys abanded him, Bellatrix was just loyal. Yes there was fear but so were there other things as well.
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We see most followed Voldemort because they were simply too scared to do otherwise. We see this in Deathly Hallows part one at Malfoy Manor. They were utterly petrified of him and wouldn't even make direct eye context. He openly mocked his host as he took his wand from him.

You don't think Sidious commanded any fear. Do I need to remind you of Mauls reaction to Sidious on Mandalore?

No, what you call ramblings was a break down of what Voldemort did. Compare it to Sidious, Voldemort is second rate. This is backed up by how almost you can do is say what I did was rambling and offer no actual rebuttal except your own opinion which is useless.

Through his potential yes he would become more powerful, that's said in the films, but to the extent you think that was it shows your lack of analytical skills. Now show me you know how to analyze and look at the full picture and not be a one sided, idiot.
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Try restating this to where it makes sense.m the second paragraph here since it's a mess. Quit with the insults and actually construct a logical argument for a change.

So Palpatine took care of someone who would potentially be more powerful than himself which isn't evil. Voldemort wouldn't allow anyone else to be superior to him because he's that selfish. Palpatine didn't need Anakin at the point in rots in which he rescued him since he already held galactic authority. He rescued him and prolonged his life by his side. That isn't cruelty no matter how your infantile mind tries to spin it, worm.

Well Qun you were good for a laugh while you lasted. Now you aren't really funny right now. So I'm going to let you go and find a way to humor me some more. When you find that, we will talk again. Until then have a nice day.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well Qun you were good for a laugh while you lasted. Now you aren't really funny right now. So I'm going to let you go and find a way to humor me some more. When you find that, we will talk again. Until then have a nice day.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well Qun you were good for a laugh while you lasted. Now you aren't really funny right now. So I'm going to let you go and find a way to humor me some more. When you find that, we will talk again. Until then have a nice day.

No keep it up ES2! Keeping him occupied here distracts him and reduces his trolling on other threads.

He really almost seems to believe Palpatine was just some victim of circumstance. The jedi were bad because they dared to try to stop him from becoming a supreme overlord of the galaxy.

Hilariously those are the *exact* same thought patterns an actual sith lord would have about this situation.

Originally posted by Surtur
He really almost seems to believe Palpatine was just some victim of circumstance. The jedi were bad because they dared to try to stop him from becoming a supreme overlord of the galaxy.

Hilariously those are the *exact* same thought patterns an actual sith lord would have about this situation.

Isn't someone being "more evil" kinda subjective? I mean, to a religious guy someone who has a lot of sex and drinks might be considered evil but not to an agnostic.