Originally posted by Prep-Man
Primal Monitor is above Beyonder anyway. GEB represents the dark sid e of god and I don't see Beyonder taking him out. Unless you have some kind of idea...
The Presence can't be "God" if there is something many stations of power above him! So being the Presence's dark side is meaningless.
Beyonder had NO equal in the Marvel Universe at the time. NO EQUAL. Nothing in the multiverse, even all of it combined was a match for him.
Beyonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Presence/GEB.
Originally posted by zopzop
Good grief. That doesn't change anything.
It changes everything. We use characters as they were last portrayed, unless otherwise stated. GEB, last portrayed, was omnipotent. What has happened since is irrelevant to that.
Originally posted by zopzop
If you really believe GEB has greater feats than the Beyonder you need to check his respect thread. NOTHING in Marvel was his equal at the time. He was literally above the rest of the Marvel multiverse combined. GEB met his match in the Presence.
He was impressive, don't get me wrong. Beyonder never met TOAA, and if he did that would have cleared up any doubts about his abilities.
It should be noted, though, that any omnipotent by definition is greater than the rest of existence combined.
Originally posted by zopzop
How could that be when the Primal Monitor wasn't even aware of the amoeba in his mist, until it had developed over the eons. If the Primal Monitor really was just another face the Presence wears, then how could it NOT be aware of it's own creation (the DC multiverse) until untold eons have passed?
Besides who says the PM is just another face of the Presence?
An interpretation I've heard is that the Presence is the conscious mind of the PM.
I think a major point of Final Crisis was how all this mishmash of various cosmic forces with seemingly conflicting hierarchies don't necessarily need to be independently exclusive and can all be equal and valid parts of the whole.
I mean in an early interview he said it was a "celebration of comics in all its confusing, contradictory glory" or something to that effect.
You're basically missing his entire point by trying to enforce a 'if not this then that' mindset that Morrison could care less about when he made the Primal Monitor. Morrison isn't retconning the Presence or the Source, he's adding to them and putting his own spin on the concept.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I mean in an early interview he said it was a "celebration of comics in all its confusing, contradictory glory" or something to that effect.
Motherf****er...
Originally posted by Cogito
No but really, there are strong hints to that effect, and against. ...Either that or they're intentionally f***ing with us.
Originally posted by Cogito
It changes everything. We use characters as they were last portrayed, unless otherwise stated. GEB, last portrayed, was omnipotent. What has happened since is irrelevant to that.
No it doesn't. Since things get retconned all the time. The MOST CURRENT RETCON is that there exists a being in DC that's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Presence and hence the GEB.
He was impressive, don't get me wrong. Beyonder never met TOAA, and if he did that would have cleared up any doubts about his abilities.It should be noted, though, that any omnipotent by definition is greater than the rest of existence combined.
TOAA must have been asleep or scared shxtless because he didn't so much as show his face as the Beyonder shxt all over his creation.
Originally posted by zopzopNo it doesn't. Since things get retconned all the time. The MOST CURRENT RETCON is that there exists a being in DC that's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Presence and hence the GEB.
TOAA must have been asleep or scared shxtless because he didn't so much as show his face as the Beyonder shxt all over his creation. [/B]
IMO, there would be no need for the TOAA to interfere.
If you are that powerful.
So what to whatever the Beyonder does.
TOAA could snap his finger and undo everything the Beyonder has done.
This is why the "highest" being of order doesn't need to worry about some other being destorying anything.
TOAA could just bring it all back to whatever state it was before.
YA HEAR!
WORD!!!! 🙂
Originally posted by zopzop
The Presence can't be "God" if there is something many stations of power above him! So being the Presence's dark side is meaningless.Beyonder had NO equal in the Marvel Universe at the time. NO EQUAL. Nothing in the multiverse, even all of it combined was a match for him.
Beyonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Presence/GEB.
Except for God. GEB>>>>>Beyonder.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Primal Monitor is above Beyonder anyway. GEB represents the dark sid e of god and I don't see Beyonder taking him out. Unless you have some kind of idea...
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You know it is quite possible that the GEB, the Presence, and the Primal Monitor are all different facets of the same being.There were hints to that effect in Final Crisis where the Angels of Pax Dei fought alongside the Champions of the Monitors (Supermen) and responded to Nix Uotan's summons along with the Forever People (agents of the Source). Not even touching on the GLC's presence and their connection to the Light.
Going by Morrison's view I'd say he sees DC Cosmology as a kind of syncretic hydra of sorts with multiple heads representing the same body.
👆
This was my thought as well. In fact, in many ways it parallels one of my favorite views of religion. IE that Allah, Shiva, Jesus, etc are all one and the same.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I think the Beyonder would defeat the Geb.