Quinlan Vos runs the gauntlet
My Star Wars alter-ego decides to run the gauntlet against some of his Jedi Master contemporaries. Personally, I say he passes (slightly subjective there), but on how he fares, what say you?
Let's assume two situations. One, in which he only receives a short break; in the other, he is completely rested after each battle.
1. Luminara Unduli
2. Eeth Koth
3. Ki-Adi Mundi
4. Shaak Ti
5. Kit Fisto
6. Plo Koon
I actually made a thread about that years ago. However, with the Clone Wars a lot more developed, many of the lists on that thread are outdated.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=384878&pagenumber=1
Originally posted by Q99
I'd say Plo, Fisto, and Shaak aren't far behind, A'Sharad in there too. Ki Adi and Quinlan being a bit behind that.
Yet, you have Vos defeating Sora Bulq, who was one of the Order's greatest swordsmen.
And then there is Agen Kolar, who is depicted as literally one of the most useless Jedi in the Order against Sidious in Revenge of the Sith, but said to be a master lightsaber practitioner. Even Fisto is shown as weak, even though he is a boss in the EU- I seriously think Fisto was high when fighting Palpatine (smile on his face lol).
Cin Drallig and Depa Bilabba were also very powerful.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yet, you have Vos defeating Sora Bulq, who was one of the Order's greatest swordsmen.
Everyone I listed is among the order's greatest swordsbeings, they have a lot of them. It's an order of tens of thousands of Jedi, if you're top 20-30, you're one of the best.
Bulq's below Koon/Fisto/etc. too and probably in the Ki-adi range.
And then there is Agen Kolar, who is depicted as literally one of the most useless Jedi in the Order against Sidious in Revenge of the Sith, but said to be a master lightsaber practitioner.
Yea, "A Master" =/= "in the top few tiers".
Even Fisto is shown as weak, even though he is a boss in the EU- I seriously think Fisto was high when fighting Palpatine (smile on his face lol).
Fisto's the only one there able to defend against so much as one strike. Still, he at least has plenty of good showings elsewhere.
[b]
Cin Drallig and Depa Bilabba were also very powerful.
Cin got beaten by Anakin using one arm while also fighting others. Not much question that anyone I listed would beat him too.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Even Fisto is shown as weak, even though he is a boss in the EU- I seriously think Fisto was high when fighting Palpatine (smile on his face lol).
I honestly think those 3 masters(4, if you include Mace for that amount of time) that Sidious blitzed were effected by PIS.
Originally posted by Q99
Everyone I listed is among the order's greatest swordsbeings, they have a lot of them. It's an order of tens of thousands of Jedi, if you're top 20-30, you're one of the best.Bulq's below Koon/Fisto/etc. too and probably in the Ki-adi range.
There's not "tens of thousands of Jedi." Kenobi told Anakin, "there are now only a few thousand of us." I place the count to be around 4000.
I would say to be among the "greatest" means top 15 in the Order.
Sora Bulq mastered every lightsaber form. He taught hundreds of Jedi, and was personally approached by Mace Windu to help him develop Vaapad, something that wouldn't have occurred if he wasn't a master duelist and one with strong Force willpower. Dooku wouldn't also have bothered to seduce him to the Dark Side if he didn't see him as a powerful asset.
I'm not saying Bulq is stronger than Koon and Fisto, but he's definitely in that tier, above Ki-Adi Mundi and that range.
Quinlan Vos dueled him to the death on Saleucami, while simultaneously fighting a greater battle in his mind against his inner darkness. Bulq continuously used Dun Moch against Vos, and managed to knock him to the ground; when he moved for the killing stroke, Vos conquered his inner darkness and slashed him across the chest.
Vos's victory against Bulq and Volfe Karkko definitely places him in the top echelon.
Fisto's the only one there able to defend against so much as one strike. Still, he at least has plenty of good showings elsewhere.
Agreed, I'd place him in the top echelon.
Cin got beaten by Anakin using one arm while also fighting others. Not much question that anyone I listed would beat him too. [/B]
Yoda, Windu, Skywalker, and Kenobi are on a higher level than any of the other Jedi we have mentioned here. And besides, the movie shows Vader dueling Cin Drallig with one arm, not killing him one-handed. Vader could have Force Choked that Padawan to death, then use both hands to slay Drallig.
Sora Bulq mastered every lightsaber form. He taught hundreds of Jedi, and was personally approached by Mace Windu to help him develop Vaapad, something that wouldn't have occurred if he wasn't a master duelist and one with strong Force willpower. Dooku wouldn't also have bothered to seduce him to the Dark Side if he didn't see him as a powerful asset.
Yea, here's the thing: Ki-Adi Mundi and most other council members would be great assets as well.
Someone's great if they're as strong as a council member, which doesn't mean they're on a tier of stronger members like Plo Koon or Kit Fisto.
Dooku brought people to the dark side weaker than Bulq too, Vos wasn't all that impressive at the time he was recruited and there were weaker recruits than him, so Bulq being targeted doesn't say much (he's pretty badass, just the fact he was recruited isn't a primary indicator of it). And heck, even after the training Vos got, Bulq was still out-dueling him in the final fight, Quinlan just got the shot when it counted. So Bulq's > Quinlan overall.
I'm not saying Bulq is stronger than Koon and Fisto, but he's definitely in that tier, above Ki-Adi Mundi and that range.
I haven't really seen him do anything to put him above Mundi.
"Of all living Jedi, have you only the skills to defeat Sharad Hett." -Yoda on Mundi (before a couple of the top tiers got to their better status, and not including Jedi who were friends with Sharad like Windu, but still, very high praise).
And besides, the movie shows Vader dueling Cin Drallig with one arm, not killing him one-handed. Vader could have Force Choked that Padawan to death, then use both hands to slay Drallig.
Maybe, but I'd think Koon, Fisto, A'Sharad, and even Mundi wouldn't be safe to divert so much attention from.
According to the Force Unleashed's databank, Shaak Ti dueled Vader in the temple and managed to escape unscathed. So she at least is on a different level.
So there's a pretty significant range in existence in 'one of the best'.
Originally posted by Q99 Yea, here's the thing: Ki-Adi Mundi and most other council members would be great assets as well.Someone's great if they're as strong as a council member, which doesn't mean they're on a tier of stronger members like Plo Koon or Kit Fisto.
Dooku brought people to the dark side weaker than Bulq too, Vos wasn't all that impressive at the time he was recruited and there were weaker recruits than him, so Bulq being targeted doesn't say much (he's pretty badass, just the fact he was recruited isn't a primary indicator of it). And heck, even after the training Vos got, Bulq was still out-dueling him in the final fight, Quinlan just got the shot when it counted. So Bulq's > Quinlan overall.
Quinlan was fighting Bulq, and an even tougher battle against his own mental demons at the same time. How he managed to hold on against one of the Order's best swordsman was impressive. And how is it against Vos that he landed the killing stroke?
Unlike Maul vs. TPM Kenobi, the duel was over and Maul was just standing like an idiot before Kenobi completely surprised him and hit the "shot that counted."
However, the fight between Bulq and Vos was still ongoing when Vos was brought down to his knees. Bulq did a final Dun Moch then rushed in for the kill. At that time, Vos overcame his inner darkness and had the presence of mind and speed to slay Bulq before the Weequy completed his stroke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIWm1GSHJ2o
Watch from 1:22 to 1:27. You see Dooku move and ready himself for the killing stroke. Imagine Obi-Wan at that instant, bursts upward and slashes the Count across his chest before Dooku completes his attack.
Likewise, at the end, Quinlan embraced the light, and had greater Force acuity and speed to beat Bulq's finisher.
He fought two battles in one duel, and came out the victor in both. Quinlan outfought Bulq in the end; it may not have been pretty, but he proved he was a greater warrior than "one of the greatest lightsaber instructors the Order has ever known."
I haven't really seen him do anything to put him above Mundi."Of all living Jedi, have you only the skills to defeat Sharad Hett." -Yoda on Mundi (before a couple of the top tiers got to their better status, and not including Jedi who were friends with Sharad like Windu, but still, very high praise).
That's such a vague quote. What skills? It's clear Yoda and the Order wanted to bring Sharad Hett. Yoda could have been referring to Mundi's pacifism, his ability to calm Hett with the Force, or power of persuasion. And who knows how many friends Sharad Hett had within the Order? That might have ruled out many other stronger Jedi.
Maybe, but I'd think Koon, Fisto, A'Sharad, and even Mundi wouldn't be safe to divert so much attention from.According to the Force Unleashed's databank, Shaak Ti dueled Vader in the temple and managed to escape unscathed. So she at least is on a different level.
So there's a pretty significant range in existence in 'one of the best'.
Hmm, tough to say. Unless the novelization states otherwise, Anakin could have choked that Padawan to death a second longer in the records and then dueled Drallig. In the ROTS game, Drallig is like the final boss in Operation Knightfall and is pretty bad@ss.
If I had to rank the Jedi during the Clone Wars, it would be:
1. Yoda 2. Windu 3. Skywalker 4. Kenobi
5. Koon
6. Bilabba
7. Fisto
8. Ti
9. Vos
10. Mundi
11. Drallig
12. Kolar
13. Unduli
14. Hett
15. Koth
I'm surprised Luminara is ranked so low. She has the TK ability to create a tornado using sand, and she helped spearhead the attack on Genosis with Mace Windu. She's also the best Form III practitioner after Obi-Wan. And she lasted longer against Ventress than Kit "Six Seconds" Fisto did.
Just saying.