Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm surprised Luminara is ranked so low. She has the TK ability to create a tornado using sand, and she helped spearhead the attack on Genosis with Mace Windu. She's also the best Form III practitioner after Obi-Wan. And she lasted longer against Ventress than Kit "Six Seconds" Fisto did.Just saying.
Fisto is pretty inconsistent. He is beaten by Ventress, does very well against Grievous (who's greater than Ventress), and then falls quite quickly to Sidious.
However, his loss to Ventress might be because Form I is weak against Form II.
And the Mission to Ord Cestus was before his encounter to Grievous (I think); therefore, Fisto could have improved over the course of the war.
Hmm I too wanted to place Unduli higher, but then it would place Kolar too far behind Vos. I mean, when Kolar wanted to apprehend Vos, he was beating him easily. But that's because Vos didn't want to fight Agen and wanted to escape. Kolar too didn't want to fight, but he had to press the advantage to be able to capture the Kiffar.
Unduli was doing quite well against Ventress. Perhaps I'd place her just behind Vos.
Kolar's a fairly no-nonsense type so I'd say Vos was handicapped more in that fight.
At what point did he fight Vos (it's been awhile since I've read his stories)? Because Vos just after he joined Dooku < Vos after he'd trained with them and learned some vaapad.
Finally, I don't think there's a problem with Kolar lagging behind Vos in the rankings. Even if there's several people in between, it doesn't mean the skill gap is huge, people bunch up at some levels.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
He is in EU. The Cestus Deception and The Approaching Storm highlight Obi-Wan's strengths. The only foes he stacks up against in AotC include the best non-Jedi in the galaxy and the best duelist in the Jedi Order. It's not like he's a chump for having a hard time with either one of them.
True, but how would you rank AOTC Obi-Wan against the other masters during the Clone Wars, like Koon, Fisto, Ti, Vos, and Mundi?
Originally posted by Q99
I was thinking about how Fay 'pulled away her thoughts' to render her unconscious more than the debris.
I've only read that comic once, but wasn't Ventress injured while she was fleeing? Then she tried doing some Force attack on Fay, but the Jedi had already pulled her thoughts away.
I don't think that's a viable combat move. It seemed Fay was allowed that opportunity because Ventress left her defenses up and was also wounded.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
I've only read that comic once, but wasn't Ventress injured while she was fleeing? Then she tried doing some Force attack on Fay, but the Jedi had already pulled her thoughts away.
Ventress was hit by some debris from Fay to wound her, then Asajj tried to crush Fay's heart with the force, and Fay sent her to sleepy land.
Ventress did know what Fay was trying, but couldn't stop it.
I don't think that's a viable combat move.
This is a Jedi who specifically has never used a lightsaber. It might not be viable for other Jedi but it works for Fay.
The "TK to get room, then take their thoughts away," double wammy might be her standard strategy.
Originally posted by Q99
Ventress was hit by some debris from Fay to wound her, then Asajj tried to crush Fay's heart with the force, and Fay sent her to sleepy land.Ventress did know what Fay was trying, but couldn't stop it.
This is a Jedi who specifically has never used a lightsaber. It might not be viable for other Jedi but it works for Fay.
The "TK to get room, then take their thoughts away," double wammy might be her standard strategy.
1. Did Ventress knew Fay was trying to remove her thoughts? It seemed Ventress was fixated on just wounding Fay, but Asajj was too hurt to combat against Fay's odd strategy.
2. An interesting strategy that we can only speculate as being the norm for her. I think the whole thought-stealing trick can only work if her opponent is weakened and his/her willpower (to the Force) is damaged.
3. I think if Ventress wasn't injured and she engaged in Fay in 1v1, she would win the vast majority of times.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
1. Did Ventress knew Fay was trying to remove her thoughts?
She said she could feel Fay doing it.
2. An interesting strategy that we can only speculate as being the norm for her. I think the whole thought-stealing trick can only work if her opponent is weakened and his/her willpower (to the Force) is damaged.
I don't think Ventress's willpower was weakened. Yea, she was bleeding in a few places, but it's Ventress, pain doesn't bother her all that much, and she was actively counter-attacking with the force.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Right, but I'm talking about AOTC Obi-Wan against ROTS incarnations of Koon, Fisto, Ti, Vos and Mundi.
I'm not sure how you can really rank them against AotC Obi-Wan, to be honest. The only saber to saber combat he sees is against Ventress whom he defeats (The Cestus Deception, which is right after AotC) and Dooku who utterly tools him. It's fair to say that Ventress could give all of the above significant trouble and maybe even defeat some 50% of the time or so, but Dooku would curbstomp all of them.
Ultimately, measuring AotC Obi-Wan as "weaker" than any of the above is supposing time equals increased skill etc. It may be correct, but there's no basis of comparison you can accurately use.
Btw, I'm rereading The Approaching Storm. Less then a dozen pages in, and Luminara is defending against a horde of assassins in an alleyway using her Soresu and doing rather well.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm not sure how you can really rank them against AotC Obi-Wan, to be honest. The only saber to saber combat he sees is against Ventress whom he defeats (The Cestus Deception, which is right after AotC) and Dooku who utterly tools him. It's fair to say that Ventress could give all of the above significant trouble and maybe even defeat some 50% of the time or so, but Dooku would curbstomp all of them.Ultimately, measuring AotC Obi-Wan as "weaker" than any of the above is supposing time equals increased skill etc. It may be correct, but there's no basis of comparison you can accurately use.
Btw, I'm rereading The Approaching Storm. Less then a dozen pages in, and Luminara is defending against a horde of assassins in an alleyway using her Soresu and doing rather well.
All right.
So if I had to ask you, how would you rank the Jedi apart from the top four (Yoda, Windu, Skywalker, Kenobi)?