2012 Republican Presidential Debate

Originally posted by Bicnarok
This old fat chap comments on Rick Perry in this video, that he´s a Christian religious nut etc. Not being an expert on US politics, is he making a mountain out of an ant hill or is it so?

YouTube video

i' m an atheist and all but I Don't think Republicans should be considered Christians at all. I say that because a lot of these Republicans would have no problem cutting taxes for the rich before giving money too the poor. In fact, they'll vilify the act of spreading the wealth as an act of commies ignoring the very teachings of Jesus Christ. Christ says more about giving up what you have to help the needy than anything but Republicans are more liekly to bring up the sinful act of homosexuality and make that they're issue than give a shit about Jesus' teachings. I thought being a Christian is about following the path of Jesus' life, not praising him like some idol for luck and doing the opposite of teachings?

Here are some suggestions we can call Republicans other than Christians.

Neo-Jews
Nu-Jews
Inhumans
Anti-Christ
The Sheriffs of Nottingham

guys

dominionist movement

I cant believe the American public isn't more aware of a literal theocratic movement with specific goals of commanding the american government, that already has major influence in the top levels of the government and the army, whom Rick Perry is the representative candidate of...

Originally posted by Bicnarok
This old fat chap comments on Rick Perry in this video, that he´s a Christian religious nut etc. Not being an expert on US politics, is he making a mountain out of an ant hill or is it so?

YouTube video

Originally posted by inimalist
guys

dominionist movement

I cant believe the American public isn't more aware of a literal theocratic movement with specific goals of commanding the american government, that already has major influence in the top levels of the government and the army, whom Rick Perry is the representative candidate of...

Isn't the President of Xe (formerly Black Water) one of these types, replacing the US Constitution with a version of the bible/Jesus?

I think so, yes

According to Jeremy Scahill's book on Blackwater, I'd say for sure

Originally posted by inimalist
I think so, yes

According to Jeremy Scahill's book on Blackwater, I'd say for sure

Their version of Jesus is sort of epic though, wielding a sword and not giving more to the poor.

lol, ya, i can see the appeal

dominionist movement

I cant believe the American public isn't more aware of a literal theocratic movement with specific goals of commanding the american government, that already has major influence in the top levels of the government and the army, whom Rick Perry is the representative candidate of...

I'm sorry, you are saying there isn't such a thing as the dominionists?

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Leftist handwringing nonsense. OMG THESE BIGOTED CHRISTIANS ARE OVERTAKING THE GOVERMENT. News flash: gay marriage just passed in New York and sodomy laws have been ruled unconstitutional. Adultery is commonplace. Abortions are legal. There is no vast, right-wing conspiracy to transform the nation into a Christian society.

A failing conspiracy is still conspiracy.

I tend to agree, however. From the outside it's easy to look at various far-right Christian groups that would clearly like America to be a theocracy and turn them into unified movement.

I'd watch that Weinstein lecture....

I'd watch that Weinstein lecture....

Weinstein

WEINSTEIN

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Oh, goody. I can only imagine what this enlightened intellectual will have to say. Will he champion illegal immigration? Will he discuss how wonderful Israel is? Will he talk about feminism and sex positivity? Tell me what wisdom this upstanding citizen has to share with Americans.

hes a conservative Jew who comes from a military background...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_L._Weinstein

ffs

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
i' m an atheist and all but I Don't think Republicans should be considered Christians at all. I say that because a lot of these Republicans would have no problem cutting taxes for the rich before giving money too the poor. In fact, they'll vilify the act of spreading the wealth as an act of commies ignoring the very teachings of Jesus Christ. Christ says more about giving up what you have to help the needy than anything but Republicans are more liekly to bring up the sinful act of homosexuality and make that they're issue than give a shit about Jesus' teachings. I thought being a Christian is about following the path of Jesus' life, not praising him like some idol for luck and doing the opposite of teachings?

Forcing people to be charitable is actually NOT Christ-like and goes against what Christians believe.

So forcing the rich to be "charitable" would not be the Christian thing to do.

Them volunteering their moneys WOULD, however, be the Christ-like thing to do.

Contrast:

Bill Gates giving away billions.
A successful preacher living in a mansion and driving a $200K car.

One of those does not belong.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Forcing people to be charitable is actually NOT Christ-like and goes against what Christians believe.

So forcing the rich to be "charitable" would not be the Christian thing to do.

Them volunteering their moneys WOULD, however, be the Christ-like thing to do.

Contrast:

Bill Gates giving away billions.
A successful preacher living in a mansion and driving a $200K car.

One of those does not belong.

Forcing the rich? It's called taxes. Since when is it a Christian thing to cut programs that help the poor and then used that money to give the rich tax cuts? Their success is dependant on those around them to build their wealth. They don't live in a bubble. A reason the poor is at a disadvantage is because Consumers want low cost goods while suppliers want high profits. In this market, the lowest skill emPloyees are paid so little even with minimum wage, they still struggle. Gas, oil, food cost, insurance, rent, and especially medical needs exceed what they low wage workers can afford to survive. Without the taxes necassary to provide such programs, how are you going to have a health work force to do the labor intense jobs?

Without labor laws and taxes on the rich to provide needed programs, how else would these people survive? It's the lower classes that move the economic engine. The reason we tax them and wrote these laws is because management/the rich abuse their positions? Charity? Yeah right. More like why don't you pay taxes and not ask for cuts when you're the likeliest group to benefit from a stronger workforce.

It's not force. Everybody pays taxes. Even Jesus said you shall render onto Caesar what is Caesar's (taxes). the rich benefit far more from these spending than the poor, ie defense. It's when they cut down what the rich are paying, lost the revenue, and then cut these programs that help the poor. Also what about sales taxes, are they going to give the poor a rebate check for that? Nah they take that and lumping it in with other subsidy programs for the wealthy. Rob from the poor to give the rich . Sounds like a Christian alright

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Forcing the rich? It's called taxes.

You don't know me very well. That's okay. Lemme better explain where I'm coming from.

I don't think we should have income taxes.

🙂

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Since when is it a Christian thing to cut programs that help the poor and then used that money to give the rich tax cuts? Their success is dependant on those around them to build their wealth. They don't live in a bubble. A reason the poor is at a disadvantage is because Consumers want low cost goods while suppliers want high profits. In this market, the lowest skill emPloyees are paid so little even with minimum wage, they still struggle. Gas, oil, food cost, insurance, rent, and especially medical needs exceed what they low wage workers can afford to survive. Without the taxes necassary to provide such programs, how are you going to have a health work force to do the labor intense jobs?

Without labor laws and taxes on the rich to provide needed programs, how else would these people survive? It's the lower classes that move the economic engine. The reason we tax them and wrote these laws is because management/the rich abuse their positions? Charity? Yeah right. More like why don't you pay taxes and not ask for cuts when you're the likeliest group to benefit from a stronger workforce.

It's not force. Everybody pays taxes. Even Jesus said you shall render onto Caesar what is Caesar's (taxes). the rich benefit far more from these spending than the poor, ie defense. It's when they cut down what the rich are paying, lost the revenue, and then cut these programs that help the poor. Also what about sales taxes, are they going to give the poor a rebate check for that? Nah they take that and lumping it in with other subsidy programs for the wealthy. Rob from the poor to give the rich . Sounds like a Christian alright

Easy, guy.

Since when was it ever Christian to force people to give away their money?

You want forced charity. Cool. People are bastards and that's the way it has to work. But make sure you don't try and pass off opposition to forced charity as "anti-Christian". That would definitely be wrong.

I think you should take a step back and redefine your argument FOR taxes, completely. Instead of using a failure of a anti-Christian approach (it would actually be anti-religion, in general, actually...but you don't like Christians even more, for some reason), you should be more literal and direct. Don't hide behind religion-hate to get your point across when it comes to taxes.

Well, I guess you CAN hide behind religion-hate to get your point across, you just didn't do it very well with taxes.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So what did he do to doom this country. Which policies did he pass that created this doom? If you say the recession and high unemployment, which of his policies caused their continuation or worsening? And what are better solutions you've heard from anyone else?

The health care for one thing and alot of people who voted for him wish they did not.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You don't know me very well. That's okay. Lemme better explain where I'm coming from.

I don't think we should have income taxes.

Since when was it ever Christian to force people to give away their money?

You want forced charity. Cool. People are bastards and that's the way it has to work. But make sure you don't try and pass off opposition to forced charity as "anti-Christian". That would definitely be wrong.

I think you should take a step back and redefine your argument FOR taxes, completely. Instead of using a failure of a anti-Christian approach (it would actually be anti-religion, in general, actually...but you don't like Christians even more, for some reason), you should be more literal and direct. Don't hide behind religion-hate to get your point across when it comes to taxes.

Well, I guess you CAN hide behind religion-hate to get your point across, you just didn't do it very well with taxes.

lol. So we shouldn't have income taxes? What Taxes should we have in place to replace that to pay for our extravegant military and infrastructures? Do we raise sells taxes because the would really help the poor out.

Again I'm going to ask you, how can they call themselves Christians when they support programs like subsidies that benefit the rich and taxes cuts for the rich then turn around and reduce or cut programs like after school activities, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc.

This isn't just about income taxes, their mentality is what's good for the rich and businesses will be good for America. They would rather cut programs and oppose programs for the poor but have no problems supporting government programs that for the wealthy. Then they turn around and praise god and jesus. WTF?

These were government revenues they cut for the wealthy. On top of the number of subsidies and tax breaks the wealthy and corps get. Then they turn around and say shit, we don't have enough revenues and we're in debt. But no worries we'll cut all these programs. Oh by the way, let's go ahead and try to fix Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Cut all that. Raise the age. That pool of SS money have been tap to pay for everything else, not just SS payments. Then they say oh, we ain't got enough money for Ss recipients - we have to fix it. Lower benefits for u. Sorry! It's the Republicans who are for this and one dissapointing democratic president.

It's forced charity if it's on the rich, but it's not the same thing when the reverse happens to the other classes. He'll they would cut these programs before they cut military spending. A stronger military benefits the rich far more then any of the other classes but they don't figure that into the equation.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
The health care for one thing and alot of people who voted for him wish they did not.

So how did the health care act he passed make the economy worse then it already was. If universal health creates such havoc, how come Canada and the other countries operated just fine with similar healthcare programs?

So a lot of people who voted for him wished they did not. That's your entire point on why he's doomed America? The statement can be applied to every president anD elected official throughout history here and abroad. People always regret decisions they make. People are bitter because he didn't go far enough in his promises and is weak. He's giving into the republicans and getting push around. He hasn't changed the status quo; he's giving into it. The other thing is he can fix the economy.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
lol. So we shouldn't have income taxes? What Taxes should we have in place to replace that to pay for our extravegant military and infrastructures? Do we raise sells taxes because the would really help the poor out.

That's a lot of assumption you're doing. Don't you think? 🙂

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Again I'm going to ask you, how can they call themselves Christians when they support programs like subsidies that benefit the rich and taxes cuts for the rich then turn around and reduce or cut programs like after school activities, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc.

Again, this all goes back to the original concept: forced charity is not actually charity and is not "Christian."

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
This isn't just about income taxes, their mentality is what's good for the rich and businesses will be good for America. They would rather cut programs and oppose programs for the poor but have no problems supporting government programs that for the wealthy. Then they turn around and praise god and jesus. WTF?

It sounds as though you've never heard of trickle down economics...like...ever.

And before you jump all over me: I don't support forced charity, either. 😉

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
These were government revenues they cut for the wealthy. On top of the number of subsidies and tax breaks the wealthy and corps get. Then they turn around and say shit, we don't have enough revenues and we're in debt. But no worries we'll cut all these programs. Oh by the way, let's go ahead and try to fix Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Cut all that. Raise the age. That pool of SS money have been tap to pay for everything else, not just SS payments. Then they say oh, we ain't got enough money for Ss recipients - we have to fix it. Lower benefits for u. Sorry! It's the Republicans who are for this and one dissapointing democratic president.

I appreciate you preaching to me. 😬

Still, the top 10% still pay the large majority of our taxes. U still mad about their tax breaks?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
It's forced charity if it's on the rich, but it's not the same thing when the reverse happens to the other classes. He'll they would cut these programs before they cut military spending. A stronger military benefits the rich far more then any of the other classes but they don't figure that into the equation.

What, you think it's NOT forced charity for anyone but the rich? Isn't that a strawman?