Sons of God

Yeshua never claimed nor confirmed that he was the Son of God. Refusal to answer by omission does not mean he must be Son of God or God made flesh.

You will never find him making the claim in the bible. In fact you will find quite the opposite of him not being the only begotten Son of God by his own words.

John 10:34-35 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

and

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

In various scriptural text in and out of the bible canon you will find that God had many Sons, his angels were referred to as the Son's of God.

Adding this the Celestial Host and Council of Gods along with acknowledgment of foreign gods, it is clear that the Judeo Religion cannot really be viewed as a Monotheistic Religion in the strictest sense of the word.

Discuss.

If we take the metaphorical approach than it should be applied evenly across the board which would mean that Yeshua is not really the Son of God either and is simply referring to his innate goodness and kindness. <_<

Originally posted by Nietzschean
Adding this the Celestial Host and Council of Gods along with acknowledgment of foreign gods, it is clear that the Judeo Religion cannot really be viewed as a Monotheistic Religion in the strictest sense of the word.

Ancient Judaism was monolatrist, like most of their neighbors. That changed as time went on to the point of foreign gods not having any power. By the time Christianity rolled around Judaism had become monotheistic, denying that foreign gods who got shown up in the Torah existed at all. Remember, the Torah doesn't claim to be the word of god, it claims to be historical, so that explanation is perfectly valid "we thought there were other gods back then, obviously we were wrong".

Originally posted by Nietzschean
Yeshua never claimed nor confirmed that he was the Son of God. Refusal to answer by omission does not mean he must be Son of God or God made flesh.

You will never find him making the claim in the bible. In fact you will find quite the opposite of him not being the only begotten Son of God by his own words.

John 10:34-35 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

and

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

In various scriptural text in and out of the bible canon you will find that God had many Sons, his angels were referred to as the Son's of God.

Adding this the Celestial Host and Council of Gods along with acknowledgment of foreign gods, it is clear that the Judeo Religion cannot really be viewed as a Monotheistic Religion in the strictest sense of the word.

Discuss.

If we take the metaphorical approach than it should be applied evenly across the board which would mean that Yeshua is not really the Son of God either and is simply referring to his innate goodness and kindness. <_<

Don't you think it's a bit absurd to see a reference to "humans" as being "gods" and then strangely say it applies to "angels"?

Why do Christians do that? Is it REALLY hard to believe that in the eternities, God's spiritual offspring will ascend to Godhood?

Stop beating around the bush and just come out and admit it: humans have, quite literally, the God given potential to become gods.

Even if you're atheist, this still holds true: one day, we will ascend to what our ancestors would consider "god-like" status.

Anyway, that's just something that irritates me. 🙂

Back on topic.

I actually did a Exegetical research assignment on Psalms 82.

There are a lot of different interpretations about the 'I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.' angle, one of which is that they're calling the people in question 'gods' because as religious and political authorities they have power like gods to the people. Another is that its actually referring to Melchizedek, or something like that, I'll have to look over what I found out 😛

Originally posted by dadudemon
Is it REALLY hard to believe that in the eternities, God's spiritual offspring will ascend to Godhood?

Stop beating around the bush and just come out and admit it: humans have, quite literally, the God given potential to become gods.

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As for the term "sons of God," it was my understanding that this was, in ancient times, a regard given to those who studied religious text / the written Word of God.

Originally posted by Mindship
That humans have the potential to become "godlike" -- or perhaps better phrased: humans are that aspect of "God" which can awaken to their true nature -- is basically what the meditative traditions are all about.

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As for the term "sons of God," it was my understanding that this was, in ancient times, a regard given to those who studied religious text / the written Word of God.

Not to mention that Elohim were also called 'gods' and Melchizedek was once the right hand of God, filling Archangel Michael's place.

But yeah, for a long time Judaism wasn't the strict monotheist religion it is today.

Jesus Christ declare through the first four gospels that he was the Son of God. You are taking Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" out of context, when God calls us humans Gods/elohim he is mocking us for are unrighteous judgment as human judges.

Jesus was born of a miraculous virgin birth (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23), and entered this world as the Godhead incarnate, i.e., God in the flesh (Colossians 2:9; 1st Timothy 3:16). Please note that all my Scriptures references are solely to the trustworthy inspired King James Bible.

The King James Bible translates John 3:16 absolutely 100% correct. The word “begotten” is there in John 3:16, because Jesus is indeed the only begotten Son of God. Every born again believer is an adopted son of God... “To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons” (Galatians 4:5). Every Christian is an adopted child into God's family. So if you have a Bible, make sure that the word “begotten” in present in John 3:16, or else throw it into the garbage after tearing it up.

All modern bibles are corrupt except for King James. Other modern translations have altered scripture too take away Jesus Christ unique relationship with God the Father, for I (jesus) and my Father are one. john 10:30

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

"I and the Father are one."

Both from the New World Translation.

Side question: Why is Jesus also called "The Son of Man"? is this a translation issue of what?

Well, he is, isn't he?

I mean, he's human.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well, he is, isn't he?

I mean, he's human.

But it seem like a weird title.

All men could call themselves the "Son of Man".

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But it seem like a weird title.

All men could call themselves the "Son of Man".

What scripture are you talking about?

Kind of hard to know what you're taking about w/o any context.

Originally posted by Mindset
We are.

What scripture are you talking about?

Kind of hard to know what you're taking about w/o any context.

Wiki actually has a list of them for some reason:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_man#New_Testament

It does seem to suggest there's a lot of translation ambiguity.

My 2 cents...

"Son of Man" is how Jesus most often referred to himself (or so it is written), humbling himself before his fellow man, establishing his connection to humanity rather than separation by proclaiming divine status (such divinity, I believe, was decreed by the Nicene Council).

On the other hand, "I and the Father are one," is entirely consistent with how an enlightened being might express his relationship with the Absolute.

IMO, Jesus had "awakened" and sought to awaken others of his faith; that while born men, we can still know God most profoundly. He believed in The Law, recognizing its importance as a map, not the territory, to aid in achieving enlightenment.

I think you misunderstood the whole Sons of God thing. It means that all man are sons to God and all woman are daughters to God.

It's another interpretation, and one I would not disagree with.

As I recall from my research, there was a school of thought that at one point in the context of the Torah God had given man eternal life but after seeing man behaving corruptly revoked it. A second fall from grace after expulsion from Eden. That's one of the interpretations of Psalm 82, that men were at one point gods by being free of death and capable of reason and given dominion over the world, that by being given the Word of God they were in effect gods. This is backed up by Genesis, where God states that Adam and Eve (Man) has "become one of us" (possessing wisdom) and that they cannot be allowed to eat from the tree of Life lest they become true divinity.

Jesus granting eternal life to man (Heaven) would thus be seen in this way to be bringing it full circle.

As for the Son of Man thing, it should be noted that Jesus hasn't always been considered the true Son of God by Christian scholars or church officials.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Son of Man thing

I'd buy it

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Side question: Why is Jesus also called "The Son of Man"? is this a translation issue of what?

4 TITLES of Son are used in the New Testament:

The Son of Adam- Means he(Jesus Christ) is a man (Son of Man) within the lineage of humanity.

Son of David- Means Jesus Christ is a King a descendent of David being an heir to his throne.

Son of Abraham- Means Jesus Christ is of a Jewish descent.

Son of God –Means Jesus Christ is God just as the Father is God. The phrase "Son of"- is used among the ancients to refer to one who has the same nature as...Son of God, means he has the same nature as God. He was called THE Son of God, being unique one of a kind.

Originally posted by Mindset
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

"I and the Father are one."

Both from the New World Translation.

New World Translations is garbage, not respected by Hebrew or Greek scholars of the Bible.

John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear Oh Israel your LORD (YHWH) thy God (Elohim), is one LORD(YHWH).

One in Greek heis/hice and Hebrew echuad means that they share the same nature,function, power and majesty of God.

El means Mighty God and "im" is plural it's compound unity.