Originally posted by -Pr-
Umm, a lot of Hal's PC history does count, as it wasn't specified otherwise.
News to me.
Since when does it need to be specified that PC feats don't count? In that case, Superman rapes Worldbreaker Hulk in that other thread, because no one said we can't use silver age feats...
Originally posted by cdtm
News to me.Since when does it need to be specified that PC feats don't count? In that case, Superman rapes Worldbreaker Hulk in that other thread, because no one said we can't use silver age feats...
No. Lanterns are the exception, not the rule, because of how the Lanterns were during the crisis.
It doesn't apply to characters who were definitely changed, like Superman for instance.
Originally posted by cdtm
News to me.Since when does it need to be specified that PC feats don't count? In that case, Superman rapes Worldbreaker Hulk in that other thread, because no one said we can't use silver age feats...
Because Hal's history, and most of the Green Lantern Corps as a whole, wasn't effected BY COIE. Superman's most definitely was.
As it stands, using PC Hal feats can be a slipperly slope as Hal hardly ever has done much outside of constructs and blasting since his revival under Johns and it's pretty clear that Hal's standard operating level =/= PC Hal.
If anything, I'd reference PC Hal feats as high end ones, definitely not the norm.
Originally posted by -Pr-Last 25 years of GL history wasn't indication enough?
Umm, a lot of Hal's PC history does count, as it wasn't specified otherwise.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaWe get it. You have a theory that is so obvious, yet so subtle, it completely justifies your personal intepretation of comics. And basically, despite the contradictory, one-sided, arbitrary nature of it all, you just happen to be the only arbiter of how to correctly interpret and apply the theory.
It's no different than saying that Surfer goes through suns, and thus Human Torch's blast would be ineffectual.The problem would be when saying that since Surfer went through the sun, it means that Thor's hammer attack wouldn't be able to harm him, unless it delivers an output larger than the one Surfer experienced inside the sun, which is several orders of magnitude above even nuclear explosions.
The difference between these two situations is probably too much for a simpleton, but I'm pointing it out nonetheless.
I made that quote a few days after I disagreed with using space cheese the way they're generally used "Surfer went into blackholes, he can't be hurt". There's no contradiction. On the other hand, if there's a direct corelation between one character's abilities, and his abiltiy to hurt his opponent with that specific ability, then there's nothing wrong using it, when those two deal with the same thing - gravity/heat etc. In that case, what was in doubt was Nova's gravity based powers working on Superman. There's nothing contradictory, if you actually are familiar with the medium.
It's a subtle difference, but it' still there for anybody even averagely intelligent who has read comics for a while.
I haven't dealt with self-serving theories like this before, ever.
But whatever. I explained my original unextraordinary statement when pushed and highlighted your transparent quaneuvers. I don't care enough to take it another step further to completely deconstruct your semi-retarded theory as it hasn't even merited serious discussion, much less a strident troll-cult following, like the other hairbrained self-serving theories I've encountered on KMC.
And whatever merit your theory might have against specific arguments (like that Surfer/star core/Thor argument), it's simply and wholly needless until somebody makes those ridiculous extrapolatory arguments. And it definitely doesn't justify undermining an entire set of feats in a blatantly one-sided manner against people who aren't even offending your "truly sincere underlying" concerns.
Originally posted by Galan007Adjusted for more accuracy.
In theory, this is true. In a versus battle or in comics, not so much.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Last 25 years of GL history wasn't indication enough? We get it. You have a theory that is so obvious, yet so subtle, it completely justifies your personal intepretation of comics. And basically, despite the contradictory, one-sided, arbitrary nature of it all, you just happen to be the only arbiter of how to correctly interpret and apply the theory.I haven't dealt with self-serving theories like this before, ever.
But whatever. I explained my original unextraordinary statement when pushed and highlighted your transparent quaneuvers. I don't care enough to take it another step further to completely deconstruct your semi-retarded theory as it hasn't even merited serious discussion, much less a strident troll-cult following, like the other hairbrained self-serving theories I've encountered on KMC.
And whatever merit your theory might have against specific arguments (like that Surfer/star core/Thor argument), it's simply and wholly needless until somebody makes those ridiculous extrapolatory arguments. And it definitely doesn't justify undermining an entire set of feats in a blatantly one-sided manner against people who aren't even offending your "truly sincere underlying" concerns. Adjusted for more accuracy.
johns reboot was post crisis. unless you want to limit things to be just what came after johns came on board.
Originally posted by -Pr-This holds true for several DC characters.
Umm, a lot of Hal's PC history does count, as it wasn't specified otherwise.
One example can be found in the Faces of Evil series from just a few years ago. During that series (JLA #29 to be exact), Starbreaker recalled his pre-crisis encounter with the JLA- in fact, the particular instance he retold was the one in which PC Hal created a construct around the entire earth, so that PC Supes could pull it [the earth] away from a vortex Starbreaker created.
Originally posted by -Pr-I'm not trying to say that the Crisis specifically and directly on-panel was responsible for changing how GLs should be viewed.
johns reboot was post crisis. unless you want to limit things to be just what came after johns came on board.
I'm trying to say that the 25 years since the Crisis happened is responsible for changing how GLs should be viewed and you shouldn't casually dismiss that it just happened to perfectly coincide with a company-wide powering down. I think that's naive.
A couple of years was enough for classic Dr. Strange fans to differentiate before/after power levels, well before the whole Aggamotto angle was revealed a short while ago. And a couple of comics was enough for Kal-L fans to differentiate his before/after power levels, where no angle was ever revealed.
Originally posted by Galan007
This holds true for several DC characters.One example can be found in the Faces of Evil series from just a few years ago. During that series (JLA #29 to be exact), Starbreaker recalled his pre-crisis encounter with the JLA- in fact, the particular instance he retold was the one in which PC Hal created a construct around the entire earth, so that PC Supes could pull it [the earth] away from a vortex Starbreaker created.
and that instance was canonized because of it.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm not trying to say that the Crisis specifically and directly on-panel was responsible for changing how GLs should be viewed.I'm trying to say that the 25 years since the Crisis happened is responsible for changing how GLs should be viewed and you shouldn't casually dismiss that it just happened to perfectly coincide with a company-wide powering down. I think that's naive.
A couple of years was enough for classic Dr. Strange fans to differentiate before/after power levels, well before the whole Aggamotto angle was revealed a short while ago. And a couple of comics was enough for Kal-L fans to differentiate his before/after power levels, where no angle was ever revealed.
And that's where we disagree, as I've said before. I'm not casually dismissing a thing.
If current Hal's power levels are sufficient to perform a feat he performed pre crisis and is a valid use of said power, then the feat is valid.
That's how it is, and Bada and I have talked about this at length.
Originally posted by -Pr-Exactly. That being said, it strikes me as extremely impressive that Hal was able to effortlessly whip up a planet-sized construct strong enough to endure the forces of Starbreaker's vortex AND the counter-forces PC Superman was exerting on the construct in return (Supes was pulling with "everything he had", after all.)
and that instance was canonized because of it.
Originally posted by Galan007
This holds true for several DC characters.One example can be found in the Faces of Evil series from just a few years ago. During that series (JLA #29 to be exact), Starbreaker recalled his pre-crisis encounter with the JLA- in fact, the particular instance he retold was the one in which PC Hal created a construct around the entire earth, so that PC Supes could pull it [the earth] away from a vortex Starbreaker created.
Ah, I forgot about that feat. That was an insnae feat for both supes and Hal.
Originally posted by Galan007I doubt much thought was given to it.
Exactly. That being said, it strikes me as extremely impressive that Hal was able to effortlessly whip up a planet-sized construct strong enough to endure the forces of Starbreaker's vortex AND the counter-forces PC Superman was exerting on the construct in return (Supes was pulling with "everything he had", after all.)
Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly. That being said, it strikes me as extremely impressive that Hal was able to effortlessly whip up a planet-sized construct strong enough to endure the forces of Starbreaker's vortex AND the counter-forces PC Superman was exerting on the construct in return (Supes was pulling with "everything he had", after all.)
Of course, so we take it as a high feat for both men. nobody's trying to paint that as the average.