Who can take Wolverine in Jungle warfare?

Originally posted by Deadline
I dunno. Fantomex can get mad hi-tech shit. His experience don't neccesarily mean a god damn thing, Cap is less experienced and is a better fighter.

I don't think Wolverine can get around his mis-direction when Professor X can't.

Better fighter? I highly disagree. Wolverine imo is more skilled and experience goes a long way in a fight. Why do you think Wolverine caught Steve with an attack he didn't see coming in Wolverine Origins #4? Because of experience... Steve received the best training (three months of it). Wolverine had years to develop his skills before he ever met Steve in WWII. Hell Steve needed Wolverine' help fighting Hand ninja the first time he fought them. Why? Because he lacked experience that Wolverine already had dealing with them.

Cap is an overall better fighter. Period. His stats are all less than wolverines but in recent showings he holds his own.

In origins you compare months of training Vs years? And then throw wolverines stats on top? That isn't even a fair comparison...

A good example is when wolverine and cap faced off on a lawn I think it was. It wasn't a stomp in anyone's favor.

Today wolverine would have more years of experience but I'd still say cap is the better fighter when you take stats out of the equation. Cap does more or the same with less.

Captain America's stats aren't "less" then Wolverines. In terms of strength and speed they are virtually equal and a person knowledgeable enough could make a valid case for Cap having a slight edge (the same is true for Wolverine though) in both categories. The same is true for skill, both of them are virtually dead even, but a more convincing case can be made in favour of Wolverine as he has better skill feats and told Cap to his face that he was better.

Wolverine has a healing factor Vs caps faster healing. Edge wolverine.
Wolverine has enhanced sight/eating/smell/tactile touch/taste Vs caps normal senses. Edge wolverine.
Then you get to durability. Wolverine has the adamantium bones to prevent breakage Vs caps normal human anatomy. Edge wolverine.

So then speed and strength could be argued.... But see my point?

Oh and to be clear! I think cap outmatched wolverine with skill. But due to wolverines natural attributes he'd win in a fight 6/10. :-(

Cap does not have a "berserker rage" which if you go off sone fans here like battlehammer I think or maybe it was someone else....

It amps wolverines strength/speed/ etc again beyond his baseline.

Originally posted by rotiart
Wolverine has a healing factor Vs caps faster healing. Edge wolverine.
Wolverine has enhanced sight/eating/smell/tactile touch/taste Vs caps normal senses. Edge wolverine.
Then you get to durability. Wolverine has the adamantium bones to prevent breakage Vs caps normal human anatomy. Edge wolverine.

So then speed and strength could be argued.... But see my point?

I was just talking about physical attributes, other then durability the things you listed fall under the preview of powers / special abilities where Wolverine obviously has a notable advantage. 😎

Originally posted by rotiart
Oh and to be clear! I think cap outmatched wolverine with skill. But due to wolverines natural attributes he'd win in a fight 6/10. :-(

Wolverine and Cap would go 50/50 even if Wolverine was bone clawed and sans healing factor. With his healing factor Logan would demolish Captain America 10 out of 10. He'd put poor ol'Steve through a counter punching clinic.

Originally posted by rotiart
Cap does not have a "berserker rage" which if you go off sone fans here like battlehammer I think or maybe it was someone else....

It amps wolverines strength/speed/ etc again beyond his baseline.

I don't take berserker Wolverine into consideration unless it is specified in the op, but Battlehammer is right in that it is a significant boost to all of Wolverine's abilities.

Wasn't there a matchup with cp and Logan facing off on the white house lawn or something like that?

Originally posted by Mindset
Pretty sure he has done that before.

Originally posted by rotiart
Wasn't there a matchup with cp and Logan facing off on the white house lawn or something like that?

No. They fought in Vietnam during Origins after Wolverine fought Nuke. Wolverine landed a potential fatal pressure point attack that prevent Cap from doing anything extraneous activities without dieing, and Cap threatened Wolverine with the Muramasa sword.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The same is true for skill, both of them are virtually dead even, but a more convincing case can be made in favour of Wolverine as he has better skill feats

No he does not when Cap gets taken out by a baseball to the nuts comeback and talk to me.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

and told Cap to his face that he was better.

How about you post the scans and when you do that point he didn't say he was a better martial artist. He said he was better and thats obvously due to his powerset.

Originally posted by Deadline
No he does not when Cap gets taken out by a baseball to the nuts comeback and talk to me.

How about you post the scans and when you do that point he didn't say he was a better martial artist. He said he was better and thats obvously due to his powerset.

Let me know when Captain America destroys a Thing-esq uber martial artist with a Karnak level pressure point attack, or successfully implements a pressure point attack on a top tier MA (cough cough Cap cough cough). 😎

Wolverine said something like "You need to learn some new moves. I saw that coming a mile away. It must hurt knowing I'm so much better then you." It's pretty obvious what "better" is referring to in the context of the situation, and its combat prowess, not power-set.

Troll harder please.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Let me know when Captain America destroys a Thing-esq uber martial artist with a Karnak level pressure point attack, or successfully implements a pressure point attack on a top tier MA (cough cough Cap cough cough). 😎

Wolverine said something like "You need to learn some new moves. I saw that coming a mile away. It must hurt knowing I'm so much better then you." It's pretty obvious what "better" is referring to in the context of the situation, and its combat prowess, not power-set.

Troll harder please.

You just paraphrase something without evidence...
And then cited it like it was proof.

.... What the heck.

And I'm still sure wolverine and captain America faced off some where other than origins. I'll have to think about it.

And even so. You are comparing cap with little training Vs wolverine with years of it.... That's not really indicative of current standards now is it...

Originally posted by rotiart
Cap is an overall better fighter. Period. His stats are all less than wolverines but in recent showings he holds his own.

In origins you compare months of training Vs years? And then throw wolverines stats on top? That isn't even a fair comparison...

A good example is when wolverine and cap faced off on a lawn I think it was. It wasn't a stomp in anyone's favor.

Today wolverine would have more years of experience but I'd still say cap is the better fighter when you take stats out of the equation. Cap does more or the same with less.

Cap definitely isn't more skilled. Proof of this is needed. Proof you wouldn't find. Experience is key, and goes a long way. Wolverine has that over Steve by far...

And it's not just Wolverine' powers that make him better. For example; in Wolverine vol 1 #4, Wolverine allows Shingen to strike at his neck with his blade, knowing the sword wouldn't cut through, Wolverine grabs the blade, putting Shingen in checkmate. Because if Shingen lets go of the sword, he wouldn't have nothing to defend with or attack and relied too much on it. So he held on. Wolverine tactically use that to his advantage and finished him.

Skill and experience is always involved. And when your body stays at it's physical peak of a man in his prime. Experience is will always be the winning factor. And it's Wolverine' fighting experience that makes him a more skilled fighter than Steve.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Let me know when Captain America destroys a Thing-esq uber martial artist with a Karnak level pressure point attack,

I probably don't need to. Tell us who this martial artist is who hes beaten and what feats does he have?

Oh and Cap has held his own against Korvac. Korvac > that guy. Not even sure if should bother responding to that scan you're probably taking it out of context.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

or successfully implements a pressure point attack on a top tier MA (cough cough Cap cough cough). 😎[/img]

Please use your head and apply common sense. Wolverine successfully applying a pressure point to Cap isn't more impressive than Cap disabling Wolverine claws. It wasn't a pressure point but I don't think that matters.

[QUOTE=13541041]Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B]

Wolverine said something like "You need to learn some new moves. I saw that coming a mile away. It must hurt knowing I'm so much better then you." It's pretty obvious what "better" is referring to in the context of the situation, and its combat prowess, not power-set.

Troll harder please.

Context. How about you tell us what happened immediately after Wolverine said that? He then got punked by Cap and got his claws disabled, as Cap put it "Did you see that coming?" the answer was obvoulsy no.

We also see that later on Wolverine wounds Cap and Wolverine even states that hes going to heal and Cap won't. So obvoulsy Wolverine won because of his HF.

Cap can't heal from wounds in seconds Wolverine can so obvoulsy Cap looked more impressive because not only did he disable his claws but he did it for a good while. It also makes sense for Cap to try and disable his claws as opposed to trying to KO him, if Cap had tried a move like that Wolverine would have just healed.

Maybe thats what Wolverine mean't but it means nothing because the fight contradicted that, it showed Cap was more skillful and Wolverine won due to his powerset.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Cap definitely isn't more skilled. Proof of this is needed. Proof you wouldn't find. Experience is key, and goes a long way. Wolverine has that over Steve by far...

*sigh* Just proved that Cap was more skillful when they fought see what I posted above.

Originally posted by Marvelknight

And it's not just Wolverine' powers that make him better. For example; in Wolverine vol 1 #4, Wolverine allows Shingen to strike at his neck with his blade, knowing the sword wouldn't cut through, Wolverine grabs the blade, putting Shingen in checkmate. Because if Shingen lets go of the sword, he wouldn't have nothing to defend with or attack and relied too much on it. So he held on. Wolverine tactically use that to his advantage and finished him.

Skill and experience is always involved. And when your body stays at it's physical peak of a man in his prime. Experience is will always be the winning factor. And it's Wolverine' fighting experience that makes him a more skilled fighter than Steve.

Wolverine isn't more experienced. Cap was sent back in time 100s of times and had to fight Korvac. So Cap potentially has 100s of years of experience. Also Cap has enhanced intelligence he can learn stuff more quickly and is a better tactician.

^When he got sent back in time 100 times, was he there physically or was this something similar to "Rebirth"? If so how would it make him more experience reliving events over and over if you're not really there physically?

Wolverine is a master tactician. Wolverine has proven this fact in many battles and situations where his skills and experience were key factors leading to victories alongside the X-men. He's considered one of the most dangerous living weapons on Earth; feared by the black ops/intelligence community and the underworld.

This was also confirmed in Wolverine vol 2 #51 during a training exercise, Forge stated that even in a berserker rage, Wolverine' mind operates with efficiency of a olympic level athlete performing a gold medal routine while beating four chest computers at the same time.

Wolverine' HF allows him to set up attacks Cap wouldn't dare try or achieve. Wolverine is far more experienced all around. And on the list of top tier martial artist on Marvel Earth, Wolverine would imo defeat more if not all of the top tier martial artist on the planet in any combat situation.

Kraven the Hunter will definitely give him a fight in the jungle. Wolverine has the edge because of his claws. If I remember correctly, Kraven prefer to fight with his bare hands. If wolverine doesn't use the claws then he's in for a good competitive fight.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
And it's not just Wolverine' powers that make him better.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
For example; in Wolverine vol 1 #4, Wolverine allows Shingen to strike at his neck with his blade, knowing the sword wouldn't cut through, Wolverine grabs the blade, putting Shingen in checkmate. Because if Shingen lets go of the sword, he wouldn't have nothing to defend with or attack and relied too much on it. So he held on. Wolverine tactically use that to his advantage and finished him.

You do realize that this is an example of wolverine relying on his "powers" right?....

Originally posted by Marvelknight
^Wolverine is a master tactician. Wolverine has proven this fact in many battles and situations where his skills and experience were key factors leading to victories alongside the X-men.

Okay. How does his skill, tactics, and experience make him better than cap.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Wolverine' HF allows him to set up attacks Cap wouldn't dare try or achieve.

Yah... sounds like another example of wolverine only having an edge cause of his mutant powers or special bones.

And as far as tactics... experience.. .etc...

During the red skull/korvac issues involving the cosmic cube.. captain america was able to mount numerous assaults... until finally winning the day.

Cap defeated someone with godlike power... virtually by himself. The only way to do that was... well.. yah...

When cap is on one side of marvel.. and they need someone to lead a team against him... do they call wolverine? no. they call a summers.

and as far as being a master tactician? proof positive? iron man concedes to following captain america... and iron man has been proven to play 3 games of chess against reed richards, while holding business meetings... and battling in his iron man suit at the same time...

yet concedes to following cap?.. thor too?... and wolverine.. has.. oh wait.. he has followed cap also.

sounds pretty clear even wolverine would rather follow cap into battle.