Who can take Wolverine in Jungle warfare?

Originally posted by rotiart
All right... tell us how wolverine's skill trumps captain america's

You do realize that this is an example of wolverine relying on his "powers" right?....

This is proof to validate Wolverine' skill and years of training.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Rematch: Wolverine vs. the Black Dragon Death Squad! Pressure points? Check. Claws? Check. Badass Wolverine action? Yeah thats a check. They don't call him the fist of legend for nothing bub.

That example shows Wolverine tactically taking advantage of his opponents weakness by leaving his neck exposed. Knowing the sword wouldn't cut through.

If Wolverine wasn't skilled enough to evade or block that attack and relied on his HF factor to save him then that would've been a better example of relying on his powers. But that's not the case.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2079/wolvieii6ae0.jpg

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1732/wolvieii7cw8.jpg

Originally posted by rotiart
And as far as tactics... experience.. .etc...

During the red skull/korvac issues involving the cosmic cube.. captain america was able to mount numerous assaults... until finally winning the day.

Cap defeated someone with godlike power... virtually by himself. The only way to do that was... well.. yah...

When cap is on one side of marvel.. and they need someone to lead a team against him... do they call wolverine? no. they call a summers.

and as far as being a master tactician? proof positive? iron man concedes to following captain america... and iron man has been proven to play 3 games of chess against reed richards, while holding business meetings... and battling in his iron man suit at the same time...

yet concedes to following cap?.. thor too?... and wolverine.. has.. oh wait.. he has followed cap also.

sounds pretty clear even wolverine would rather follow cap into battle.

Following Cap in a battle means what? By that logic, Scott is a better combat tactician in one on one situations? Most of the superhero community looks to Steve for "leadership". That doesn't take anything away from Wolverine. One has to undermine his own leadership role in the X-Men and Uncanny X-Force. I give Steve the nod as a field commander but not as a combat specialist over Wolverine.

Wolverine's more skilled at guerrilla warfare, survival tactics, infiltration, tracking/hunting, swordsmanship, martial arts, assassination techniques, and advance pressure-point fighting (trained by Master Po). Wolverine knows more different ways to hurt a man compared to Steve as well. All because of decades of training and fighting experience.

Take out Wolverine of "Wolverine Weapon X" vol 1 #1 against Strike Force X and put Steve there and lets see how he handles a 12 highly trained group of killers (all with Wolverine' power-set), 5 days in a jungle. Better yet Lets see how Steve handles the Dragon Death Squad all at once?

? You fail to see my point.
Wolverine > captain America overall.

But it's his stats that give him the clear advantage.
You yourself admit that wolverine used his own body to lodge his opponents weapon because of his hf and bones. Cap has no way to do that.

Clear and simple you can't compare the two unless you strip away Logans mutant powers and claws and bones.

My comparison is this. Captain America has similar or close to similar feats... But has less in the form of baseline stats and thus must make it up in here skill.

And the best comparable feat I can think of to srankin off the top of my head is caps escape from the helicarier during civil war

Originally posted by rotiart
? You fail to see my point.
Wolverine > captain America overall.

But it's his stats that give him the clear advantage.
You yourself admit that wolverine used his own body to lodge his opponents weapon because of his hf and bones. Cap has no way to do that.

Clear and simple you can't compare the two unless you strip away Logans mutant powers and claws and bones.

And you fail to see how tactically, Wolverine used that situation to his advantage. Yes his Adamantium laced skeleton and claws give him an advantage over Steve physically. But Wolverine still uses these advantages with strategy and skill. These advantages only allow Wolverine to pull off offensive and defensive strategies that Steve couldn't achieve in a fight. Having those advantages only increases Wolverine' already impressive fighting ability.

Also notice that Wolverine only used his claws to take Soulstriker' hand at the end of the battle. He used training and fighting skill to defeat the Dragon Death Squad all at once. A feat I don't see Steve pulling off.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
And it's Wolverine' fighting experience that makes him a more skilled fighter than Steve.

These advantages only allow Wolverine to pull off offensive and defensive strategies that Steve couldn't achieve in a fight.

It's Mon El's fighting experience that makes him more skilled than Val Armorr. His powers only allow him to pull off offensive and defensive strategies Val couldn't achieve in a fight.

That's how I'm seeing this line of reasoning.. IMO, the fact Cap can hang with Logan despite his powers proves he's more skilled, just as Val Armorr hanging with daxamites without any powers proves how skilled he is..

guerrilla warfare in a jungle setting is right up frank castle's alley, the guy did two tours in vietnam prior to becoming the punisher.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
And you fail to see how tactically, Wolverine used that situation to his advantage. Yes his Adamantium laced skeleton and claws give him an advantage over Steve physically. But Wolverine still uses these advantages with strategy and skill. These advantages only allow Wolverine to pull off offensive and defensive strategies that Steve couldn't achieve in a fight. Having those advantages only increases Wolverine' already impressive fighting ability.

Also notice that Wolverine only used his claws to take Soulstriker' hand at the end of the battle. He used training and fighting skill to defeat the Dragon Death Squad all at once. A feat I don't see Steve pulling off.

A feat you dont see steve pulling off?
I don't see it either as steve has no claws.

Originally posted by cdtm
It's Mon El's fighting experience that makes him more skilled than Val Armorr. His powers only allow him to pull off offensive and defensive strategies Val couldn't achieve in a fight.

That's how I'm seeing this line of reasoning.. IMO, the fact Cap can hang with Logan despite his powers proves he's more skilled, just as Val Armorr hanging with daxamites without any powers proves how skilled he is..

Trying to mirror my argument and failed big time... The comparison is nowhere near the same. Try again.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
guerrilla warfare in a jungle setting is right up frank castle's alley, the guy did two tours in vietnam prior to becoming the punisher.

Originally posted by rotiart
A feat you dont see steve pulling off?
I don't see it either as steve has no claws.

Failed. The feat I don't see Steve pulling off is taking on all 4 members of the Black Dragon Death Squad. Wolverine' claws had very little to do with the outcome.

Considering your example has Wolverine catching a sword with his neck, and this is somehow proof that Logan is more skilled than Cap, I think the comparison is apt.

Steve doesn't have an adamantium skeleton, claws, and healing factor, which means Steve can't take the risks Logan can, nor afford to make mistakes.. The fact Steve can hold his own at all against him is a feat of skill.

Originally posted by cdtm
Considering your example has Wolverine catching a sword with his neck, and this is somehow proof that Logan is more skilled than Cap, I think the comparison is apt.

Steve doesn't have an adamantium skeleton, claws, and healing factor, which means Steve can't take the risks Logan can, nor afford to make mistakes.. The fact Steve can hold his own at all against him is a feat of skill.

Wolverine is more skilled because he trained for decades and knows more. Steve can hang with Wolverine because he himself is near logan in stats and combat skill but far less experienced. Plus the shield offers great protection.

Wolverine using his Adamantium laced skeleton and HF to set up counter attacks isn't the same as being far more physically powerful compared to your opponent with other powers that mirror Superman'.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Trying to mirror my argument and failed big time... The comparison is nowhere near the same. Try again.

Two tours in vietnam means what to Wolverine? Do you want to compared experience between the two in guerrilla warfare? I think not.

Failed. The feat I don't see Steve pulling off is taking on all 4 members of the Black Dragon Death Squad. Wolverine' claws had very little to do with the outcome.

You mean like taking on the entire wrecking crew?

Originally posted by rotiart
You mean like taking on the entire wrecking crew?

Scans? I highly doubt Steve beat the entire Wrecking Crew all at once.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Two tours in vietnam means what to Wolverine? Do you want to compared experience between the two in guerrilla warfare? I think not.

if you want to get scans to prove he's better at it feel free

Originally posted by psycho gundam
punisher is the embodiment of guerrilla warfare

if you want to get scans to prove he's better at it feel free

He isn't better than Wolverine in this category though. To say he is the "embodiment of guerrilla warfare" in the face of Wolverine is silly. In this very thread Franks chances are very slim. If 12 members of Strikeforce X couldn't take Wolverine down, one man who is less skilled overall and physically outmatched won't... I'd give Frank 2-10 wins only because of prep.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Scans? I highly doubt Steve beat the entire Wrecking Crew all at once.

It happened that cap fought the entire wrecking crew. But I don't have the scans sorry. I want to think it happened in the last decade prior to all the civil war stuff. I'll have to think about it.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
punisher is the embodiment of guerrilla warfare

if you want to get scans to prove he's better at it feel free

Originally posted by rotiart
My comparison is this. Captain America has similar or close to similar feats... But has less in the form of baseline stats and thus must make it up in here skill.

Originally posted by rotiart
A feat you dont see steve pulling off?
I don't see it either as steve has no claws.