Originally posted by ares834
Not neccesarily. Maia are sometimes killed by mortals. And in the book even Gandalf wasn't sure he could defeat the Witchking at Gondor.
Yes, necessarily. No mortal killed any Maia at any time: just destroyed their physical bodies. That's the whole point of Sauron's little adventures...his body was destroyed but his soul remained.
Edit - Also, that thing you refer to about Gandalf is an apples to oranges comparison. Gandalf did not know how real the curse was upon the Witch King. He had no way of knowing if he could actually win...however, that does not mean that his "magic" was weaker than the Witch King's...which was my point: Gandalf was the more powerful magical user.
Originally posted by dadudemonMakes it all the more hilarious how Eowyn literally made him her *****.
YouTube videoSTFU and deal with that. awesome
Originally posted by dadudemon
Edit - Also, that thing you refer to about Gandalf is an apples to oranges comparison. Gandalf did not know how real the curse was upon the Witch King. He had no way of knowing if he could actually win...however, that does not mean that his "magic" was weaker than the Witch King's...which was my point: Gandalf was the more powerful magical user.
And before you say it, Ares...
Yes, I am aware "man" was what the "curse" was about. But that's splitting hairs. Gandalf was called an "old man" in that extended scene.
However, they never clashed like that. In fact, it was Gandalf that scared the Nazgul away in RotK. So it should be obvious that his statements were more about the dubiousness of him actually being able to kill the Witch King rather than him admitting that his arcane arts were superior to his own.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, necessarily. No mortal killed any Maia at any time: just destroyed their physical bodies.
An irrelevant distinction. For example, men die but their spirits remain behind.
That's the whole point of Sauron's little adventures...his body was destroyed but his soul remained.
Not all maia were able to continue their influence after death. The Balrogs for example remained dead.
Originally posted by ares834
An irrelevant distinction. For example, men die but their spirits remain behind.
Not irrelevant specifically for Maia and the like...because...they can reform their physical bodies. Like I said, apples to oranges.
Originally posted by ares834
Not all maia were able to continue their influence after death. The Balrogs for example remained dead.
Again, wrong as well. Most likely, they go to the Abyss or Void (Abyss is in the Timeless Halls ... but super duper far away from the Creator, and the Void is just that: a void with no connection to anything except things like the Door of Night...but most likely the Abyss. There is not "eternal" destruction for Maia...even ones corrupt by Melkor.)
Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]Not irrelevant specifically for Maia and the like...because...they can reform their physical bodies. Like I said, apples to oranges.
Not all Maia were able to. As I stated, when a Balrog's body was destroyed they were unable to reform or return. Furthermore, Gandalf won't be able to truly kill the Witchking either. And usually the term death refers to the destruction of the body. Heck, IIRC, Gandalf even said he died in his battle with the Balrog.
Again, wrong as well. Most likely, they go to the Abyss or Void (Abyss is in the Timeless Halls ... but super duper far away from the Creator, and the Void is just that: a void with no connection to anything except things like the Door of Night...but most likely the Abyss. There is not "eternal" destruction for Maia...even ones corrupt by Melkor.)
I never once said the Balrogs were eternaly destroyed. My understanding was their spirits lingered around but were completely impotent and unable to reform. This is also what happens to Sauron when his ring is destroyed.
Originally posted by ares834
Not all Maia were able to. As I stated, when a Balrog's body was destroyed they were unable to reform or return. Furthermore, Gandalf won't be able to truly kill the Witchking either. And usually the term death refers to the destruction of the body. Heck, IIRC, Gandalf even said he died in his battle with the Balrog.
K, so what I said. Thank you for conceding.
Originally posted by ares834
I never once said the Balrogs were eternaly destroyed. My understanding was their spirits lingered around but were completely impotent and unable to reform. This is also what happens to Sauron when his ring is destroyed.
K. So what I said, yet again.
Keep it mind, it started with you saying this:
Originally posted by ares834
Maia are sometimes killed by mortals.
I could point out that you backpedaled and are pretending to not have said what you did.
Originally posted by dadudemon
K, so what I said.
Which is why I said it's an irrelevent distinction between destroying a body and dying... Hell, Tolkien at one point says Sauron was "slain".
I could point out that you backpedaled and are pretending to not have said what you did.
😕
When did I pretend to say they weren't killed? I've been saying they were killed the entire time.
Originally posted by dadudemonWhat is this supposed to prove ?
YouTube videoSTFU and deal with that. awesome
Originally posted by NephthysWhen it came down to it Harry found his inner strength over Cedric's body.
You said it was because of what had previously occured. Clearly this is untrue unless Harry gets inner strength from being tortured and watching Cedric snuff it.
Okay, I'm going to be honest. Here's on this fight goes.
Saruman burns the metal of the lightsabers, Palpatine and Yoda let go, Darth Vader calls them pansies.
Darth Vader chokes Saruman.
Feeling schooled, Yoda and Palpatine pick up their lightsabers and grumble about today's generation.
Witch King, who didn't like Saruman anyway because of his insanely manly voice swings at Yoda. Only since Yoda is half the size of his flail, misses entirely and gets chopped up by Yoda.
All three saber throw at Sauron, and he dies too.
Or something to the same effect. I appreciate how powerful Sauron is implied to be, but come on. If he can't even beat Obiwan and Yoda this match is spite. Jedi are just in a league of their own.
Originally posted by ares834
Which is why I said it's an irrelevent distinction between destroying a body and dying... Hell, Tolkien at one point says Sauron was "slain".
It's not. We must be clear by making that distinction with almost all of the Maia because...they can reform their physical bodies and mortals cannot.
Exceptions are Balrogs and Sauron. Sauron's was due to him pouring all of his power into the one ring. Balrogs still "go" somewhere, they just don't stay in Eä when their physical forms are slain.
Originally posted by ares834
😕When did I pretend to say they weren't killed? I've been saying they were killed the entire time.
I made a really good point here and it went over your head. I have lost interest, at this point.
Originally posted by dadudemon
It's not. We must be clear by making that distinction with almost all of the Maia because...they can reform their physical bodies and mortals cannot.
True. But when a physical body is destroyed I consider that dying. Whether or not they can resurrect themseleves is inconsequential to me.
Edit: And I would once again point out that Tolkien said Sauron was slain in battle.
I made a really good point here and it went over your head. I have lost interest, at this point.
What point may I ask?