Originally posted by zopzop
It's not like his body was bruised and broken, just his face, where the Uni-Power "entered his helmet through it's openings", is bruised and bleeding. If he really did get his ass kicked, he would have been in a lot worse shape.
I just find it hard to believe that the attack used to rip off his helmet left him in such a sorry state.
Originally posted by Starscream M
go ahead. you have no basis.classic juggernaut was nigh phucking invincible. pre-onslaught, nobody could EVER injure him.
come at me bro!
Anyways, I'm done. At some point I have to stop destroying you.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I just find it hard to believe that the attack used to rip off his helmet left him in such a sorry state.
He used a "mental probe" to find Juggernaut's weaknesses. I'm pretty sure once he completed the mental probe, he found out that Juggs was vulnerable to psi attacks without his helmet protecting him. The fact that even the Uni-Power couldn't probe Juggernaut's mind without first removing his helmet is pretty impressive (and even then he had to send the Uni-Power through the openings in the helmet).
Originally posted by zopzop
He used a "mental probe" to find Juggernaut's weaknesses. I'm pretty sure once he completed the mental probe, he found out that Juggs was vulnerable to psi attacks without his helmet protecting him. The fact that even the Uni-Power couldn't probe Juggernaut's mind without first removing his helmet is pretty impressive (and even then he had to send the Uni-Power through the openings in the helmet).
Okay, how does that explain being beaten black and blue? The only attack we saw was the energy blast ripping through his helmet. I personally find it weird that the mental probe would as far as their initial encounter went but I guess I could be wrong.
For the record, the Captain managed to access both their minds, trapping them in some mental plane and he even accessed Cain's memories. The helmet made things slightly more difficult but it couldn't prevent him from entering Cain's head if he wanted to apparently. It was an annoyance.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay, how does that explain being beaten into a coma? The only attack we saw was the energy blast ripping through his helmet.
Because he himself said he probed his mind to find his weaknesses?
For the record, the Captain managed to access both their minds-Juggernaut with helmet and Peter- by trapping them in some mental plane. He even accessed Cain's memories. The helmet made things slightly more difficult but it couldn't prevent him from entering Cain's head if he wanted to apparently. It was an annoyance
How do know it was some sort of mental plane? Why couldn't it be the Enigma Force's homeplane?
Originally posted by zopzop
Because he himself said he probed his mind to find his weaknesses?
What?
Originally posted by zopzop
How do know it was some sort of mental plane? Why couldn't it be the Enigma Force's homeplane?
Like Spider-Man said, it was all in their head. It was hit home by the trading of memories and all that. Either way, he accessed Juggernaut's mind through the helmet without any problem so I don't really care.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like Spider-Man said, it was all in their head. It was hit home by the trading of memories and all that. Either way, he accessed Juggernaut's mind through the helmet without any problem so I don't really care. [/B]
No, Spiderman didn't know for sure if it was all a mind trick or they were transported somewhere else.
Read that scan again, he wanted to probe his mind to find any weaknesses but the helmet was an impediment so he sent the Uni-Power through the helmet's openings. If he couldn't perform a simple probe because of the helmet, how would he drag him to some astral plane with it on?
Originally posted by zopzop
No, Spiderman didn't know for sure if it was all a mind trick or they were transported somewhere else.Read that scan again, he wanted to probe his mind to find any weaknesses but the helmet was an impediment so he sent the Uni-Power through the helmet's openings. If he couldn't perform a simple probe because of the helmet, how would he drag him to some astral plane with it on?
Spider-Man seemed to think it was most likely all in their heads:
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4034/spider1g.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6703/spider2h.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5496/spider3e.jpg
In such cases I usually defer to the comic. Besides, we saw him clearly enter Juggernaut's mind:
Like I said, either way the helmet doesn't matter when he pushes. There doesn't have to be a contradiction. Impediment can mean annoyance i.e. something that he can overcome with effort.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, either way the helmet doesn't matter when he pushes. There doesn't have to be a contradiction. Impediment can mean annoyance i.e. something that he can overcome with effort.
So why did he have to send the Uni-Power through the "openings" in the helmet? Why not rip it off?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What?My point is that it's something he can obviously overcome whether through sheer psychic power or finesse. In the end, it's irrelevant when he applied effort.
And he did end up ripping it off.
No he didn't. Read the scans. He had to send the Uni-Power in through the openings of his helmet (because the helmet was stopping his probes). That's a strange way of going about attempting a mind probe if you could just rip it off or blast it off.
Likewise he never overcame Juggernaut's "unstoppability" enhancement and had to take him by surprise.
Originally posted by zopzop
No he didn't. Read the scans. He had to send the Uni-Power in through the openings of his helmet (because the helmet was stopping his probes). That's a strange way of going about attempting a mind probe if you could just rip it off or blast it off.
The helmet was an impediment but using finesse he was able to work around it. The second time around he either did the same or used sheer psychic force to go through it:
Either way the helmet doesn't mean anything in the long run.
I'm not sure what you want from me. I'm not the f*cking writer, I'm telling you what happened on panel and you can either choose to accept it or not. It's not my job to put your mind at ease.
Originally posted by zopzop
Likewise he never overcame Juggernaut's "unstoppability" enhancement and had to take him by surprise.
Okay? I never claimed he overcame the enchantment so what's the point of even bringing it up?
I don't even know why I'm wasting time doing this. The worst Saturday night I've had in a while.
Yea, we established that Juggernaut got styled on.
I honestly don't know either at this point. I think he claimed that Captain Universe couldn't get through Juggernaut's helmet or something which obviously isn't true based on the scan I posted. Now Zop is using Quan tactics to hang on. Either that or he can't get his points across to save his life.
