Thor wins. He didn't look very concerned going up against Quicksilver and even commented that he has experience dealing with speedsters. Quicksilver doesn't have the DC "special" speed powers so I'm not saying he's in Flash's league but he has been showing well lately.
P.S. I'm a tiny bit biased against DC speedsters. I think Marvel handles it more realistically.
Originally posted by CosmicCometMore because DC focuses more on enhancement powers than Marvel. Even DC mages tend to have more detective/brick like aspects than marvel. Also as of Flashpoint with Barry starting to acknowledge his more esoteric powers as a commonly used ability as well as the fact that I believe Flashpoint implies that Barry is outside of time as Zoom stated he himself was due to the fact that Barry kept his memories despite the reboot of the timeline. Barry was keeping up with Zoom without the difficulty he's had prior and is shown to understand how to timetravel at will as a matter of focus. I'd like to see how Thor deals with a Flash who's capable of dodging attacks via time travel has a speed that is far faster than ever before and a willingness to use his abilities.
DC handles speed more realistically.It's less of a maybe/sometimes/i dont know power in DC than it is in Marvel.
Btw for the hermes feat beating the flash as a basis for Thor being able to tag Flash. Flash was contending with Hermes and recently lost a lot of his constraints with his speed. Big amp IMO so I don't know if I would consider that race/hermes dickery stealing his speed a valid loss anymore considering Barry's new speed.
So Thor either
A) can't hit Barry which results in a draw if people think Barry couldn't hurt Thor.... which he can
B) gets speedstolen(for anyone who says a Mjolnir stop is possible I'd like to see him try with his cognitive functions brought to a halt)
C) IMP/Speedforce dump.
Or because Thor has the ability to tag beings with superspeed?
He's displayed enough feats to warrant an argument saying he can tag a speedster directly if not use a roundabout method of hitting them (ie. weather control, quakes, area of effect attacks, etc). He also has displayed trouble against swift enemies to justify someone saying he'd be unable to do it regularly.
In the end, it boils down to how much stock you put into the specific power of superspeed (which has been long since romanticized on KMC) and to what lengths you find it to be broken and whatnot.
Your second/third sentence is exactly what I meant. How the hell can Thor go from fighting 'instantaneous light speed' Starhawk (who seems like he forgot his speed fighting Thor), to slugging it out with mere mach x speed Hulk?
Speed is 'romanticized' for good reason.
You can't beat what you can't hit.
Speed kills, period.
When you have speedsters who are so fast, the world from their perspective is literally standing still, including falling glass hanging in mid air or ballooning explosions stopping in their tracks, it's no wonder high level speed is overrated.
And that's not even taking into account speedsters fast enough to do that, are themselves eclipsed by the cream of the crop to the point of standing still themselves.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Or because Thor has the ability to tag beings with superspeed?He's displayed enough feats to warrant an argument saying he can tag a speedster directly if not use a roundabout method of hitting them (ie. weather control, quakes, area of effect attacks, etc). He also has displayed trouble against swift enemies to justify someone saying he'd be unable to do it regularly.
In the end, it boils down to how much stock you put into the specific power of superspeed (which has been long since romanticized on KMC) and to what lengths you find it to be broken and whatnot.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Your second/third sentence is exactly what I meant. How the hell can Thor go from fighting 'instantaneous light speed' Starhawk (who seems like he forgot his speed fighting Thor), to slugging it out with mere mach x speed Hulk?Speed is 'romanticized' for good reason.
You can't beat what you can't hit.
Speed kills, period.
As I said before I find the Flash incredibly broken and I wish after Flashpoint Barry would have been depowered to Jay Garrick levels... Lightspeed/a bit faster than light is fast enough for flash. But at will time travel, an inescapable dimension, the ability to steal kinetic energy, deliver Superman+ level punches is stupid. But it's all in Barry's power set.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Your second/third sentence is exactly what I meant. How the hell can Thor go from fighting 'instantaneous light speed' Starhawk (who seems like he forgot his speed fighting Thor), to slugging it out with mere mach x speed Hulk?Speed is 'romanticized' for good reason.
You can't beat what you can't hit.
Speed kills, period.
Speed's important enough in the grand scheme of things, but when you extrapolate superspeed to the point where these characters cease to be themselves and begin hitting billions of times under a forum setting and can hit with galaxy level force and solo an untold number of herald level beings when they've clearly have not done anything close to that in their actual comics, it becomes a joke.
You can't honestly tell me the power of super speed isn't vastly overrated on these forums.
Originally posted by Uriel005
As I said before I find the Flash incredibly broken and I wish after Flashpoint Barry would have been depowered to Jay Garrick levels... Lightspeed/a bit faster than light is fast enough for flash. But at will time travel, an inescapable dimension, the ability to steal kinetic energy, deliver Superman+ level punches is stupid. But it's all in Barry's power set.
Cool. He has a broken power set, just like x amount of characters.
Doesn't mean he'll actively do all of that in a typical fight where he's fighting in character and decades worth of comics support that. I just find it funny how anyone with superspeed gets a pass to become some kind of CIS off, superspeed blitzing, Speed Force dumping, speed stealing, God like being, but characters with wide open ended power sets such as a Green Lantern or Silver Surfer don't get the same benefit of the doubt.
No, the problem is people get too hung up on tiers and names and don't pay attention to powerset enough.
Galactus can be a cosmic all he wants. He doesn't have the feats to suggest that Barry can't blitz the hell out of him. Barry may or may not be able to ko him, but Galactus wouldn't be able to put up an offense himself.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
No, the problem is people get too hung up on tiers and names and don't pay attention to powerset enough.Galactus can be a cosmic all he wants. He doesn't have the feats to suggest that Barry can't blitz the hell out of him. Barry may or may not be able to ko him, but Galactus wouldn't be able to put up an offense himself.
It's more like people warp powersets to the point where characters aren't even fighting in character. And it's not even powersets in the end; it's specifically speed which is blown entirely out of proportion.
And Galactus wastes Barry.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankNot CIS off. CIS on doesn't change his perceptions nor the fact that he should at least to the best of his abilities dodge attacks which at his speed means he's outrunning Omega Beams/attacks as fast as the Black Racer. That's consistent PIS not CIS.
Cool. He has a broken power set, just like x amount of characters.Doesn't mean he'll actively do all of that in a typical fight where he's fighting in character and decades worth of comics support that. I just find it funny how anyone with superspeed gets a pass to become some kind of CIS off, superspeed blitzing, Speed Force dumping, speed stealing, God like being, but characters with wide open ended power sets such as a Green Lantern or Silver Surfer don't get the same benefit of the doubt.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Speed's important enough in the grand scheme of things, but when you extrapolate superspeed to the point where these characters cease to be themselves and begin hitting billions of times under a forum setting and can hit with galaxy level force and solo an untold number of herald level beings when they've clearly have not done anything close to that in their actual comics, it becomes a joke.
In character or what not doesn't matter, CIS/WIS is off. The characters get to do what is specifically within their abilities to do. Speed is simply that important, when your opponent can't hit you or even perceive you, that trumps everything else--unless the character is simply durable enough to withstand everything which would just make for an endless stalemate. The Hulk would literally be a statue to Barry. There is no possibly argument to make that the Hulk would 'eventually' land a hit, there is no such thing possible when the speed difference is that great. Maybe if someone was only a few multiples faster, but not by magnitudes that would make a puddle vs an ocean seem like a conservative analogy.
Let's make a Barry vs Galactus thread though, no joke.