Panhandling - Yay or Nay?

I live in the Greater Toronto Area.

Virtually everytime I travel to the downtown core I am accosted by homeless people looking for money.

When I was younger I would often throw my spare change into their hats, guitar cases etc. But in my old age I have grown stingier. My clever, witty stock response is usually after being asked, 'Do you take debit??' as I rarely carry cash any more.

Do any of you fellows out there give directly to vagrants in your area?

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more panhandlers here in Winnipeg than T-dot.

I don't give money, I've given like a slice of pizza or other things if I have it.

Originally posted by inimalist
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more panhandlers here in Winnipeg than T-dot.

I don't give money, I've given like a slice of pizza or other things if I have it.

Were they grateful for something other than money?

And Winnipeg is worse??? Never been..

incredibly worse, and it is racialized here too...

some were, though, I'm not naive enough to think that all panhandlers are just looking for their next meal. I've been with friends who have given money, in fact, the exact amount of money the guy was asking for, which caused the panhandler to get upset.

I wont pretend to understand it, lol. There are charities that appear to bring them sandwiches or the like, so I'm not sure if food is really scarce or what?

EDIT: I never lived in Toronto proper, Mississauga for many years, so this is my observation rather than having a lot of experience with the homeless in Toronto

Originally posted by inimalist
incredibly worse, and it is racialized here too...

some were, though, I'm not naive enough to think that all panhandlers are just looking for their next meal. I've been with friends who have given money, in fact, the exact amount of money the guy was asking for, which caused the panhandler to get upset.

I wont pretend to understand it, lol. There are charities that appear to bring them sandwiches or the like, so I'm not sure if food is really scarce or what?

EDIT: I never lived in Toronto proper, Mississauga for many years, so this is my observation rather than having a lot of experience with the homeless in Toronto

What do you mean 'racialized'? Are a high percentage of them Native?

Originally posted by theICONiac
What do you mean 'racialized'? Are a high percentage of them Native?

a vast majority... 8/10 from my experience

also, I've met white homeless in the city who do what they can to emphasize their own native-ness.

http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/index/news-homeless-facts

Homelessness in Winnipeg

It is estimated that there are about 135,000 people at risk of becoming homeless, 7600 `hidden' homeless, 1,915 short-term or crisis sheltered people and 350 living on the streets

A night count on June 22, 2005 found 125 people using emergency shelters (this excludes those on the street and hidden). Of those counted, 81% were male and 62% identified as Aboriginal

Originally posted by inimalist
a vast majority... 8/10 from my experience

also, I've met white homeless in the city who do what they can to emphasize their own native-ness.

Interesting as I'd say 8/10 in Toronto are white. Given the ethnic makeup of T.O. and surrounding areas you would almost say whites are at a disadvantage 😱

apparently 1/3 of homeless in Toronto are immigrant, I suppose that doesn't say anything about race, but...

http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/one-third-toronto-homeless-are-immigrants-most-them-women-carribean

I don't think I would ever suggest that white people as a whole are at anything close to the disadvantage that immigrant or native populations face... at the very least, 2/3 of homeless sort of falls right in line with demographic charts:

EDIT: wtf, can't make the image work... follow the link, it is a pie chart that shows just above 50-55% of people in Toronto are white. Outside of the MTA, that demographic would skyrocket, suggesting that homeless from those areas would influence the Toronto number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Toronto_census_2006_pie_chart_visible_minorities_population_characteristics.png

and there are lots of reasons why some immigrant populations (in north america, Arabs for instance, afaik) are less likely to become homeless.

We should start a thread on Advantages/Disadvantages of being Native...very interesting topic.

I'm curious as to what you think the advantage is? no sales tax?

EDIT: jeez, link doesn't work either, and I'm on my way to class....

its the wikipedia for "demographics of toronto", it is one of the graphics on the right side. The demographic chart puts natives and whites in the same category... which is understandable in terms of immigration, but not helpful here.

Originally posted by inimalist
I'm curious as to what you think the advantage is? no sales tax?

I certainly recognize the myriad of problems facing Natives here, but properly played out a Canadian of First Nations descent (at least 1/4 native) has a decent shot at a happy, succesful life with things like:

1. An attendance allowance while in highschool (was $60/week as I recall native friends saying when I was in school).
2. Free housing on the reserve
3. Free University education
4. Wood/fishing rights not available to others

This is off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other 'perks' I am missing.

Unfortunately being stuck in the mire of multi-generational, cyclical substance abuse/domestic violence sees few Natives capitalizing on these benefits and realizing their full potential.

I say nay what homeless people need are jobs not money. If they have money they will only use it on drinks and drugs.

Traveling around London, especially near Waterloo station and the little underpasses through to the IMAX you get a ton of them. I have no pity for them so I ignore them most of the time although I rarely get approached by them, not to ask money anyway, usually when they have had too much to drink.

Originally posted by theICONiac
I certainly recognize the myriad of problems facing Natives here, but properly played out a Canadian of First Nations descent (at least 1/4 native) has a decent shot at a happy, succesful life with things like:

1. An attendance allowance while in highschool (was $60/week as I recall native friends saying when I was in school).
2. Free housing on the reserve
3. Free University education
4. Wood/fishing rights not available to others

This is off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other 'perks' I am missing.

Unfortunately being stuck in the mire of multi-generational, cyclical substance abuse/domestic violence sees few Natives capitalizing on these benefits and realizing their full potential.

things like free housing on a reserve are a double edged sword at best, like self-government.

the hunting and fishing rights are interesting, but hardly a worthwhile advantage... and when it comes to cultural things, these rights are more likely to be used as a bargaining chip by native leaders to... extort(?) money from the federal government.

Funding for attending school or free university are nice, but hardly used. I had a native friend who did chemical engineering, and she was constantly being given thousands of dollars because she was native and was winning competitions. The reason she won so frequently was because there was essentially zero competition, she was one of the only native students in the region.

Its like if they started giving funds for people who were over 8 feet tall. Its a nice gesture, but there are going to be so few people who are in a situation to take advantage of it, that it hardly changes anyone's living conditions for the better.

I'm sure there is a list of things that natives supposedly "get" from our government or special "rights" that they have, but in almost all cases, these are implemented by a disinterested Ottawa through corrupt tribe governing systems. The average native, I would argue, is probably hurt more by things like self-government, no property tax on reserves or whatever considerations we make to their "traditional" practices.

Sure, I pay for my schooling. I have so many more opportunities and privileges compared to a native person though, that it really is a moot point. Would I have liked an extra $60 a week to go to school? of course! Would it have made a single difference in my life, no.

Though, there is a point to be made about non-natives who come from similar conditions having less options, which I'd say is a different point entirely, but a valid point (though, finding a place in canada that would be considered a "non-native" reserve would be incredibly difficult, inner-city poverty often doesn't even come close)

There was a time when I would give spare cash to homeless people, a buck here a quarter there. Nowadays though, I'm jaded. San Francisco is infested with the ****ing bums, and the truth is that this city caters to them more than it does to those who are actual functioning members of society. If you're homeless in San Francisco you can find places that will feed you for free three times a day every day of the week, you can even choose special foods like vegan food, japanese, etc etc. There's a shit ton of housing available for the homeless to sleep at as well.

The City takes such good care of them that I don't feel the need to. Especially since most homeless are in that state because a)they choose to be, b)they're mentally ill, or c) they're addicted to drugs, in which case me giving them 50 cents or buying them some food isn't going to help anyway.

Only time I'll ever give a homeless person money is if they provide some kind of service for me, like holding a door open for me, or if they've got kids with them.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
I say nay what homeless people need are jobs not money. If they have money they will only use it on drinks and drugs.

Exactly! And they tend to be rather rude/aggressive about it.

Case in point, I took my father last year to a Leafs game at the ACC. After the game we get out in the parking lot; my father guides me as I back my car out of a tight space with no visibility. A homeless person approaches him:

Bum: Hey bud got any change?
Daddy ICON: Nope, sorry, nothing.
Bum: Got any bills?
Daddy ICON: Pffft. I'm not giving you any bills
Bum: Your a f@cking @sshole!
Daddy ICON: F@ck you
Bum: NO, F@@@@@@@CK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUU!!!

I hear this exchange going on, and step out of the car in fear this was going to turn physical. Homeless person takes off.

If I had had a bottle of Listerine or Brut 33 I could have given it to the guy...would have made his night 😄

I used to not have a problem with it, and would give out any spare change i didn't need, but then people started sitting beside ATMs and approaching me in the street. Not good.

Not to mention the proliferation of Eastern European gangs that beg to make money before getting picked up by their parents in a BMW, and the few times i've seen so-called "beggers" with nike shoes that are just a little bit too clean.

I'm North of Toronto in Thornhill, so there ins't much panhandling here, but I take the subway down town all the time. Sometimes there is a little old lady begging at Finch station... gets me every time. I can't say no.

Originally posted by inimalist
Would I have liked an extra $60 a week to go to school? of course! Would it have made a single difference in my life, no.

Yeah, imma say that's complete bullsh*t on your part. It would have made a tremendous different.

Sure, you may have wasted the money with your immaturity...