Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I feel I need to address something: By feats, the Rinnegan is so far above MS it is laughable. EMS might be a different story but we don't know yet.
B fell before Sasuke's newly activated Amatersu like a fly and was barely able to escape and B has replicated comparable wide-range destruction feats to pain's.
And Susanoo seals the body and spirit of whomever touches the blade.
It's quality over quantity.
Originally posted by Astner
No, I knew what your points were, both prior and post the change of them. I've already pointed it out.
No you didn't, failed to address them properly, and you deliberately lied to be right.
Originally posted by Astner
They share the same vision and mind. The reason the toad confrontation chant didn't work was because they didn't share the same hearing.
They share the same mind, however.
So your point fails completely.
Nagato can see, hear, feel, touch...everything that his bodies can.
Else he have a dialogue with Naruto from a distance?
Hmmmm?
Now, let's see you really try to pull a response to this out of your ass.
I can already help you: Nagato is a master expert at lip reading, right?
I have a counter for that too (as silly as it is): Naruto's head was down when he was staked to the ground and he had quite a few words with Nagato.
So Nagato can also hear what his bodies are doing.
Originally posted by Astner
Bounces off?
Yes.
😐
Genjutsu works by affecting the neocortex/frontal lobe/Prosencephalon of the target.
The target is not Nagato, it's the pain body.
Somehow, this has to magically transfer from that mind, bounce off of Nagato, and then transfer to the other 5 bodies.
Since this is not even how genjutsu works, we do not have to even have a discussion about genjutsu affecting all the bodies at once because of "shared vision".
Keep in mind that not even the sensor types could track Nagato's "thoughts" back to the bodies: it was impossible to trace.
Yet, magically, chakra sent to a particular bodybrain is somehow going to target Nagato's mind when Itachi will not even be able to tellw here that body is.
Originally posted by Astner
It's one mind. The bodies are dead puppets whom's eyes Nagato can see through.
Fail. Already explained why.
Originally posted by Astner
1. He wasn't the leader, Tobi was.
2. Most likely on Madara's accord.
3. Most likely through Tobi's orders.
4. First on Kakashi and then on Sasuke.
1. It's shorter to use an actual list than to type all of that out, btw. And I am very glad you pointed out that Tobi was the real leader behind the curtains...but you may want to read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto
2. You mean Tobi's, right? 😉 But this somehow magically "negates" what I said? Hint: it doesn't. In fact, it's irrelevant to Nagato actually running Akatsuki. Sure, Tobi was giving the general direction (they call this settin the strategic direction in the business world), but Nagato was giving the day to day orders. Consider Madara the share holder and Nagato the CEO.
3. Same as #2. However, you must have intimate knowledge of your squad in order to successfully: pair them with someone and maximize their utility in a mission.
4. Possibly others other than those two. We just don't know about them.
Regardless, this more than proves the futility of your position.
Originally posted by Astner
Jiraiya trained them for years? No. Jiraiya simply trained them so that they could fend for themselves. Besides Jiraiya didn't avoid eye-contact with Itachi when he saved Naruto.
Jiraiya trained them for years, yes. My guess is no longer than 3 but greater than 1.
Prove otherwise.
Jiraiya did not need too because he is...you know... a sanin.
Originally posted by Astner
No, first and foremost the point is to avoid visual illusion period. Because the six paths of pain are visually connected.
This point fails before you even made it. I've explained why, already...and it was explained before you came into this thread.
Originally posted by Astner
Based on what? Itachi definitely knew how to counter it when Nagato used it on him. You could argue that he needed Naruto's spiraling shuriken and B's beast bomb in order to overcome it completely but there's no evidence for that.Let's do a logical recap: X + Y + Z > T {does not make} T > Z
We know for a fact however that Itachi could one-shot Nagato with the sword of Totsuka, because he did.
On top off all this we still have the author agreeing that the Mangekyō sharingan is the most powerful eye-technique as opposed to the Rinnegan which was simply addressed as the most noble.
Go back and read that chapter (you acknowledge it in your post).
Figure out why Itachi, fighting Pain alone, cannot counter Chibaku Tensei.
When you have figured out why, get back to me.
Here's another hint: Itachi could not have possibly come close to successfully sealing Nagato, even in the single form, withOUT the help of B and Naruto as distractions.
Well for starters, I'd rather have the one that let me keep my eye sight.
Only the sword of Totsuka can do that. Only reason Itachi has that ability is he put it on his sword. Sasuke's Susano'o lacked it.
As for Tsukuyomi...it's strong I suppose but it drains chakra like mad. And I don't recall it ever being used on multiple targets at once, meaning it is a strictly one on one deal.
Rinnegan on the other had allows one to use all 6 elements, meanings you can effectively master whatever jutsu you want. Allows you to have nasty abilities like chakra draining, stealing souls(and information) summons, and massively powerful attacks. Not to mention the fact that one can simply separate their abilities among 7 bodies(one per each), thus enabling them to fight together and confuse the enemy.
To me, it's a no brainer. 3 good techniques against 3 also good techniques plus tons of other powers.
Originally posted by Astner
What are you talking about? The mangekyō sharingan unlocks abilities like Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo. While they're not as wide-scale as say shinra tensei and chibaku tensei they're certainly more lethal.B fell before Sasuke's newly activated Amatersu like a fly and was barely able to escape and B has replicated comparable wide-range destruction feats to pain's.
And Susanoo seals the body and spirit of whomever touches the blade.
It's quality over quantity.
No, they are NOT more lethal. That's is, as said, quite laughable.
Not only does Itachi use Amaterasu on a single person, Tsukuyomi but simple function only works on one person.
Susanoo is easily countered by a black hole. Oh, right...Nagato has one.
🙂
And, it's not quality over quantity.
Because Nagato has both. 🙂
Originally posted by Astner
What are you talking about? The mangekyō sharingan unlocks abilities like Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo. While they're not as wide-scale as say shinra tensei and chibaku tensei they're certainly more lethal.B fell before Sasuke's newly activated Amatersu like a fly and was barely able to escape and B has replicated comparable wide-range destruction feats to pain's.
And Susanoo seals the body and spirit of whomever touches the blade.
It's quality over quantity.
Originally posted by King Kandy
The match up is important. Amaterasu is useless against the absorbing path. Tsukuyomi is especially ineffective against the 6-paths formation because it can just close whatever eyes he targets while continuing to watch with the other ones. Susanoo is Itachi's best chance here and its no surprise that technique is what gave him the win in their most recent confrontation. But if not for the help he got, chibaku would have ended Itachi.
Yeah, those are all pretty much my ideas, as well.
So, the single Nagato form WITH a summon will work against the Tsukuyomi? So does that settle it? Nagato wins both matches?